How Marco Hernandez Does IT: The Solo MSP Story
Title: How Marco Hernandez Does IT: The Solo MSP Story
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Marco Hernandez runs a one-man MSP called Tech IT Up, focusing on small businesses in the Greater Toronto Area. With over 30 years in the IT game, Marco has carved out a niche catering specifically to solopreneurs and small companies that can't justify a full-time IT staff. His story is a testament to resilience, having transitioned from a law background in Venezuela to IT after a bad experience with computer repair. He emphasizes the importance of client relationships, trust, and personalized service, which is crucial in a market where clients appreciate a hands-on approach. Marco’s strategy revolves around understanding his clients’ needs and providing tailored solutions that keep them coming back. He shares his journey from a break-fix model to a more managed services approach, highlighting the learning curve and the importance of setting clear expectations with clients. With a steady revenue of $150,000 annually, Marco is happy with his lean operation and has no current desire to expand into a large team, preferring the flexibility and control that comes with being a solo operator.
Takeaways:
- Marco's journey as a one-man MSP shows that you can thrive solo without a huge team.
- He believes in focusing on client satisfaction, creating a personalized approach that works wonders.
- Networking has been a game-changer for Marco, helping him find clients and grow his business.
- Marco emphasizes the importance of setting clear expectations with clients from the get-go.
- He finds joy in his work, helping clients with their tech challenges and building trust over time.
- Despite the temptation of corporate gigs, Marco's passion keeps him committed to his unique business path.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome to the MSP Owner Podcast.
Speaker B:Today I'm excited to welcome Marco Hernandez, the founder and driving force behind tech IT up IT services.
Speaker B:A nimble one man MSP based out of Toronto, Canada.
Speaker B:Marco's journey into the IT industry spans over 30 years, three countries.
Speaker B:So he's got a lot of perspective on both the challenges and opportunities of the MSP space.
Speaker B:Tech IT up generates $150,000 of annual revenue.
Speaker B:Marco really exemplifies what it means to run a lean, efficient business with a laser focus on client satisfaction.
Speaker B:And as an immigrant to the US and later to Canada, Marco's story is one of resilience, adaptation and determination.
Speaker B: Since founding Tech IT up in: Speaker B:But his belief in his own business and the bet on himself has seemed to have always paid off.
Speaker B:So, Marco, welcome.
Speaker B:And to start things off, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about where your business is at today for some context.
Speaker A:Thank you, Ben.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:This is very exciting.
Speaker A:I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker A:Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker A:Yes, you made a great introduction.
Speaker A:I'm very happy about it.
Speaker A:So yes, I run a very lean, nimble msp.
Speaker A:I like the term nimble.
Speaker A:Got it from the tech tribe.
Speaker A:My target market is solopreneur small businesses in the GTA west area.
Speaker A:I'm in the Toronto, I live outside Toronto.
Speaker A:I service a suburb outside Toronto in the west side.
Speaker A:There's a lot of cities like Oakville, Burlington, Mississauga, Middleton.
Speaker A:My specific target at those small businesses from 1 to 25 employees that have a lot of it going on to run their operations, but not big enough to have a permanent IT on staff.
Speaker A:So I found my niche that I really like to serve specifically.
Speaker A:For example, one of my verticals that I love to service is mechanics out of services.
Speaker A:The outer service industry here is very high tech and I found a very nice, as I said, as a very nice niche that keep me busy.
Speaker A:They keep me busy and I love servicing my clients.
Speaker A:My services range from the usual break fix, all full MSP offering.
Speaker A:My clients go from lawyers, accountants, mechanics, business owners, dentists, you name it.
Speaker B:So it sounds like your business is mostly focused locally in the Toronto area.
Speaker A:It is locally the G.
Speaker A:What is called the GTA west, the Greater Toronto area West, because this is very big.
Speaker A:We have 6 million people around here.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So all the west side of Toronto.
Speaker A:Yes, it's.
Speaker A:We have about 2 million people.
Speaker A:Give or take around here.
Speaker A:I started when I started my business, I did a lot of residential service.
Speaker A:Now I'm committed fully to, to msp.
Speaker A:So, yes, it's.
Speaker A:It's the cities I service.
Speaker A:For example, Mississauga, which is a big city, is where our airport is, where the Pearson International Airport is in that area.
Speaker A:It's not really Toronto.
Speaker A:That city is huge.
Speaker A:So I have a lot of clients in the city as well.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's lots to get into.
Speaker B:I'm particularly interested in starting back at your roots because you just have such a diverse background of different experiences, it seems like, which is kind of formulated to, to create where you're at today.
Speaker B:So we're take us back to whatever the beginning is for you, you know, from a personal or professional perspective, just, you know, for context.
Speaker A:That's a good story.
Speaker A:I started in my, my professional career studies.
Speaker A:I went to law school, actually not computers at all.
Speaker A:I come from a family of lawyers and on my second year, my computer broke and I took it.
Speaker A:I was born in Venezuela, so I was back.
Speaker A:That was back in Venezuela back then and way before Y2K.
Speaker A:My computer broke, took it to a shop.
Speaker A:They did a horrible job.
Speaker A:They switched parts, they made a big mess, formatted my hard drive.
Speaker A:We lost a lot of data.
Speaker A:Horrible.
Speaker A:Say, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm going to learn how to do this just to fix my stuff and see how it goes, right?
Speaker A:And I fixed my computer and then friend of mine had a computer issue and I fixed it.
Speaker A:Then I fixed another one.
Speaker A:Another one.
Speaker A:I just took a quick class, one weekend class on computer repair, hardware kind of thing, back before Windows 3.1.
Speaker A:So it was kind of very fun.
Speaker A:I started fixing computer.
Speaker A:And then my mom started telling me, oh, you know, I have a friend that has a problem with the computer.
Speaker A:Would you mind helping?
Speaker A:I said, sure.
Speaker A:One thing led to another.
Speaker A:I left law school, switched to computer science.
Speaker A:And you know, almost 30 years later, I'm here actually doing exactly the same I was doing when I started 30 years ago on a bigger scale.
Speaker A:But I love it.
Speaker A:I love servicing people and helping people.
Speaker A:But everything started just because I got bad service.
Speaker A:And that's what I say I would never again.
Speaker A:Never again.
Speaker A:And that's what I do with my clients.
Speaker A:I'm very proud of it.
Speaker B:When did you leave Venezuela when you were young?
Speaker A: I left Venezuela in: Speaker A:My idea was.
Speaker A:Our idea of I'm married.
Speaker A:So our idea was to.
Speaker A:We moved to the States for schooling.
Speaker A:I went to the.
Speaker A:I live in New Hampshire in Manchester.
Speaker A:So I got my bachelor's degree over there.
Speaker A:Then I decided to get an mba.
Speaker A:I want to get into the corporate world.
Speaker A:So we moved to Cincinnati.
Speaker A:I got an MBA over there, but it was hard.
Speaker A:It was hard to stay in the States because we needed sponsorship or whatnot.
Speaker A:And then Canada had this wonderful program of the skilled workers visa.
Speaker A:You get some points and you move to the country.
Speaker A:And that's what we did.
Speaker A:We moved to Canada 18 years ago.
Speaker A:17 years ago.
Speaker A:The issue was when you move to Canada, even if you have like a high education from other countries, you have to start over.
Speaker A:And that's a challenge that newcomers face coming to Canada.
Speaker A:Any newcomer to Canada will tell you exactly the same thing.
Speaker A:There's a lot of jobs, but you need to get what is called the Canadian experience, quote, unquote.
Speaker A:So I moved here, started applying for jobs.
Speaker A:I got a lot of interviews, and they say, oh, yeah, but you don't have Canadian experience.
Speaker A:Canadian experience.
Speaker A:At the 11th month of me looking for jobs and running out of money, the savings were almost zero.
Speaker A:Last interview, I said, you know what?
Speaker A:I went to school eight hours from here.
Speaker A:Cincinnati is eight hours from here by.
Speaker A:By car.
Speaker A:It's it.
Speaker A:What are you.
Speaker A:So you know what?
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:I'm gonna see if I can do it on my own.
Speaker A:And I hope I.
Speaker A:I found a.
Speaker A:A computer service, French, that was franchise into the gta, the Greater Toronto area.
Speaker A:They're from Ottawa, something like the Geek Squad.
Speaker A:The Geek Squad, the nerds on site, something like that.
Speaker B:Were meant for residential clients or residential.
Speaker A:Client mostly, and also small businesses.
Speaker A:But they were looking to expand their.
Speaker A:Their foothold here in the gta because they were from Ottawa.
Speaker A:And I looked and looked them up.
Speaker A:They were great.
Speaker A:Sound like a fantastic opportunity.
Speaker A:So I bought a franchise, so to speak.
Speaker A:And that's how I started.
Speaker A:I started, and the very next day, I bought the franchise.
Speaker A:They provided a lot of support.
Speaker A:They already were.
Speaker A:They had websites, PSAs, RMMs, you name it.
Speaker A:They were actually.
Speaker A:We were on the Yellow pages, so people found me through the Yellow Pages.
Speaker A:I started doing residential service, and I started working the day after.
Speaker A:They pretty much gave me my email address and my stuff, right.
Speaker A:A year later, the overhead was huge.
Speaker A:Because when you have a.
Speaker A:When you are a franchisee, maybe you heard the story, man.
Speaker B:The, The.
Speaker A:The franchise fees kill you.
Speaker A:I decided we.
Speaker A:We had a mutual agreement.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:I'm gonna go solo.
Speaker A:This is really not working out.
Speaker A:Like, 70% of my income was going towards paying franchise costs.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:I was Working seven days a week.
Speaker A:It was insane.
Speaker A:I was making a lot of money, but the overhead was huge.
Speaker A:Was huge because again I had to keep this yellow Pages agreement that was like $5,000 a month yellow Pages.
Speaker A:This was crazy.
Speaker A:Was crazy.
Speaker A:Yellow Pages were going out.
Speaker A:You know, digital was started to really make its impact.
Speaker A:And I say you know what?
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:They were great.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We parted ways amicably and I opened.
Speaker A:Check it up.
Speaker A:That's what I was.
Speaker A:Started going to networking groups.
Speaker B:Were you able to take some of the clients from your franchise experience to take them?
Speaker A:It was fine.
Speaker A:They were, they were super gracious.
Speaker A:There were great guys.
Speaker A:If they see.
Speaker A:If they watching this, they know who they are.
Speaker A:They're great guys.
Speaker A:Now they're servicing government there.
Speaker A:There are huge MSP in the Ottawa area because Ottawa is where all the government is and they are super, super established in Ottawa.
Speaker A:And so we.
Speaker A:I got some clients.
Speaker A:I always gave the.
Speaker A:Because what happens to.
Speaker A:Probably you heard it before with providers like me, the name of the company is not as important as the name of the person.
Speaker A:So people will call me and I say Marco, I got this email from this company that you no longer with us, but you're going solo.
Speaker A:I would like to stay with you.
Speaker A:So sure, no problem.
Speaker A:And they lend me that.
Speaker A:It's never an issue, never a problem.
Speaker A:So yeah, I took.
Speaker A:I would say most of it.
Speaker A:Most of the clients came with me.
Speaker B:That is really interesting because you would think in a situation where you're kind of getting away from.
Speaker B:From another model, they would have been.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:That's an amazing, that's amazing departure.
Speaker A:Phenomenal.
Speaker A:They were phenomenal on everything because you know it's.
Speaker A:We found they understood yeah your, your costs are high.
Speaker A:But also we also moving away from this residential thing more into government.
Speaker A:So it was you know, win win.
Speaker A:It was win win.
Speaker A:And there were.
Speaker A:It was fine.
Speaker A: nt on we're talking about now: Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:That's when I, I went pretty much 100% solo.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:How did you end up finding those.
Speaker B:You had your clients from initial franchise that went in to tech it up.
Speaker B:But then how did you start to find new clients?
Speaker B:Networking.
Speaker A:Networking groups.
Speaker A:I was, I'm a.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I am a huge networker.
Speaker A:I go.
Speaker A:I actually member of one working group that I'm on the.
Speaker A:On the executive.
Speaker A:We started with BNI when I, When I bought the franchise.
Speaker A:The guys Told me, you have to join bni, then sure, it's fine.
Speaker A:I joined bni and yes, it really helped big time.
Speaker B:BNI is a networking group or a peer group.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a huge networking group, is actually American.
Speaker A:It's called Business Network International and they have chapters pretty much all over North America.
Speaker A:And bni, it's a networking group which is category exclusive.
Speaker A:So only one accountant, one lawyer, one IT joins and then we refer each other.
Speaker A:It's like any networking group, but we used to meet every week.
Speaker A:And I found one group that had an opening for it because it's a category that is easily taken with all these networking groups.
Speaker A:And I was lucky to find this group.
Speaker A:And I started getting referrals from day one.
Speaker A:It's very easy to refer an IT guy and when people, you know, call for help, I did a good job.
Speaker A:And they start referring other people and referring families and friends.
Speaker A:It was a steep transition curve from the beginning because most of the clients I was getting were residential clients.
Speaker A:And along my residential clients, I still service those legacy clients from, you know, back when I started.
Speaker A:Of course I will never, you know, leave them and I help them.
Speaker A:But it was at the beginning a lot of residential clients from all over the place until people started to see me, okay, I think you can help handle my business.
Speaker A:And then they started giving me refer me to other businesses until this day that they're very comfortable referring me.
Speaker B:Hi, I'm Ben Tigelaar, the host of MSP Owner podcast and the CEO of Datatel, an IT managed service provider with 35 employees.
Speaker B:The mission of this podcast is simple.
Speaker B:To have authentic conversations with IT owners about their journey, how IT started, the challenges they faced, and where they're going next.
Speaker B:Every episode, I personally walk away with a new actionable item to strengthen my own business.
Speaker B:But a quick word about my company, Datatel.
Speaker B:We are actively acquiring MSPs who align with our service and culture.
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Speaker B:First is I get you.
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Speaker B:I have the solutions and people in place to address these pain points.
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Speaker B:Tell me how the residential model works.
Speaker B:I've actually never talked to an MSP that serves residential.
Speaker B:So it sounds like that was mostly the business at the starting of the business.
Speaker B:Tell me how that works.
Speaker A:Because when we.
Speaker A:At least when I started was no MSP infrastructure.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was break fix.
Speaker A:It's the break fix model.
Speaker B:It was, hey, we need a computer guy, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, my computer got a virus and I need, I need to clean it up.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:I go do it, charge whatever, one, two hours, whatever it is, and that's it.
Speaker A:Which is probably something it will be nice to talk about is that transition from the break fix model to a MSP is huge.
Speaker A:So the way it started back then, it was all.
Speaker A:Nobody was using the term MSP at all.
Speaker A:Only big corporations in the Bay Area, downtown Toronto, where the companies had that model.
Speaker A:The MSP for residential clients was not a thing.
Speaker A:The Geek Squad, the Best Buy Geek Squad was the, the one they started kind of using it.
Speaker A:And then there's a.
Speaker A:There's a franchise I don't know they have in the States called Nerds on site.
Speaker A:So the nerds started to try to sell contracts to residential clients.
Speaker A:Mostly antivirus subscriptions and.
Speaker A: But in: Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:For example, I didn't have it because it was so expensive.
Speaker A:The only one around here was Cathaya and Autotask.
Speaker A:The cost was insane for a small operator like me.
Speaker A:So it was a lot of break fix and people started to get used to that idea.
Speaker A:Oh, so you can put an antivirus that maybe is better than the Norton you can buy off the shelf.
Speaker A:And that's how it started.
Speaker A:That's how residential clients started to embrace the MSP model.
Speaker A:But it's definitely business.
Speaker A:Definitely business.
Speaker A:Are the ones that.
Speaker A:I have very few clients residential clients on MSP model.
Speaker A:They all mostly break fix.
Speaker A:All my businesses are msp.
Speaker A:I have it onto my MSP offerings because they see it, they understand the value.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:But it was hard because there was nothing like that at the beginning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:From a, from a business perspective, like I just think man, serving residential would be so hard because the clients are just.
Speaker B:They don't have the pocketbooks to do it.
Speaker B:They don't have.
Speaker B:They might have pain points but on the pain points that like a business does and is able to facilitate a solution for so it's, it's impressive that you cut your teeth there and then over time you transition to more businesses.
Speaker B:So can you talk about the transition to finding more businesses?
Speaker B:Because obviously you find businesses different than you find residential clients.
Speaker A:That's a great point.
Speaker A:That's a great point.
Speaker A:It's actually, it's kind of the opposite because I'm, I'm, I'm lucky that I live in, in a.
Speaker A:I mostly operate in a suburb called Oakville is a very rich area.
Speaker A:So people, residential clients here, will not bat an eye for an invoice, whatever they need to pay their will.
Speaker A:And it's a problem because I also live here and it's the Oakville effect.
Speaker A:Everything is more expensive here.
Speaker A:So residential clients here are very open, the pocketbooks are big and they want personalized service, which is what helped me grow my business.
Speaker A:When people call me, they call me and I answer the phone, I answer my phone, it's my cell phone.
Speaker A:So people in my area like that, they don't like to call an 800 number.
Speaker A:Even residential, sorry, business clients, they don't like to call 800 numbers or they don't.
Speaker A:They like me, they like to see me all the time, which is a challenge.
Speaker A:Also, being a nimble MSP has these old set of challenges.
Speaker A:But what helped me transition, to answer your question, from residential clients, to find those businesses, is there's a lot of people in this area that had big corporate jobs in Toronto and they retire and they, they say, you know what, I'm bored.
Speaker A:I'm going to start a new business from my kitchen table.
Speaker A:But these people had a ton of money, so starting a business is not the same as starting a business.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They don't bootstrap anything.
Speaker A:So I had clients that they start a business and, oh, yeah, my operating capital police, you're probably $5 million.
Speaker A:Let's see how it goes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And so they spend a lot of technology starting, so they call me to help them set up that.
Speaker A:And those clients, I got them from residential, they called me because, oh, I need to set up this printer because I cannot do the wifi, wireless printer thing.
Speaker A:And when we start talking, say, you know, Marco, I'm opening a.
Speaker A:I'm thinking on opening a new business and I'm going into partnership with somebody else, or I got hired as a consultant, but as an independent contractor.
Speaker A:So I had to set up an entire office on my own.
Speaker A:And that's how a lot of my clients from residential now are business clients, because then they themselves transition and they grew Also, Covid had.
Speaker A:Covid was came.
Speaker A:Covid was way later.
Speaker A:But Covid also had an effect of downsizing and reshuffling.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And then those residential clients, they all know people and they started say, this is my IT guy.
Speaker A:I do a lot of promotion on digital and I do a lot of newsletters.
Speaker A:That helps a lot because I send the newsletters to my list and they forward it to everybody.
Speaker A:So I also get those secondary leads from my clients forwarding my newsletters or my posts or whatever.
Speaker B:What is the residential.
Speaker B:Do you still accept residential clients right now?
Speaker B:Referral.
Speaker A:It's if it's a B.
Speaker A:If it's a.
Speaker A:For example, I go to a business that has, I don't know, 10 employees and I do something for the office manager or I'm doing something for a.
Speaker A:For example, a dentist for the doctor.
Speaker A:And a lot happens, a lot.
Speaker A:There comes this.
Speaker A:The high.
Speaker A:The dental hygiene dental assistant or the hygienist.
Speaker A:Hygienist, sorry.
Speaker A:And they say, Marco, do you.
Speaker A:Do you know I have problems in my house.
Speaker A:I don't know if you do house calls, can you help me?
Speaker A:I always say, sure, no problem.
Speaker A:I don't go after residential clients actively, but I will take a referral from established client to do residential.
Speaker A:Some.
Speaker A:I know some MSPs will say, pick a line.
Speaker A:I sometimes I really try and I see the value Laser focusing on a niche or isof.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Don't get me wrong, I see the value on that, but it's hard for me to.
Speaker A:When somebody that I've been knowing, I've been going to this business for six months and these people see me all the time, we create a rapport and they ask me for help.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's hard for me to say, you know what, just go to Staples or call the Geek Squad and they'll help you out.
Speaker A:So I don't want to trust on the Geek Squad.
Speaker A:I'm not trusting the Geek Squad.
Speaker A:It's just they're more residential.
Speaker B:It's clear you really care about your clients and you think of them as like people that you really, really want to help and have solutions for.
Speaker B:And like, that's what really matters to you.
Speaker A:It's very hard to.
Speaker A:To get a client and.
Speaker A:And I have lost clients before for disagreements or.
Speaker A:Or many other reasons.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:It's hard to capture.
Speaker A:Clients have to keep.
Speaker A:So I really.
Speaker A:I really go above and beyond to really keep him happy, within reason.
Speaker A:But also we have to be happy.
Speaker A:Both.
Speaker A:We both have to be Happy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:For example, I'm very clear on clients because I like to set expectations very clearly.
Speaker A:When I sign an msp, even when I get a lead from a potential MSP client, I have an example.
Speaker A:I don't sign clients that work 24 7.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker B:Because my weekends are for your own sanity, probably.
Speaker A:So I, I don't sign clients that work 24 7, number one, because it's just me.
Speaker A:I have partners and I have other MSP providers in the area that we are colleagues and those guys are awesome.
Speaker A:And when I go on vacation, I can.
Speaker A:They cover me.
Speaker A:When they go on vacation, I cover them.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:I don't want to be on a.
Speaker A:I don't want to have my phone with me like a 24 7.
Speaker A:And at 2 in the morning, somebody rings because a server is down.
Speaker A:No, I don't, I don't.
Speaker A:So I don't sign clients.
Speaker A:And I, I said those expectations very clearly from the beginning.
Speaker A:And I'm Convinced There are MSPs.
Speaker A:They are 24.7MSPs that do fantastic job for me.
Speaker A:I'm happy with servicing that segment of the businesses in the area that close doors at 6pm Monday, Friday, 9 and 6.
Speaker A:And they don't.
Speaker A:They go, and here's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of golfing and fishing and they go to the cottage of the weekend and they turn the phone off.
Speaker A:That's the kind of business owners that I service.
Speaker A:And I'm happy with it.
Speaker A:So it's awesome.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:Like, that's, that's your niche, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and, and those clients really like the personal touch and approach.
Speaker B:And they're okay with a one one man shop.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, they don't need the 24 7.
Speaker B:You know, what they care about is the relationship, the trust, the, you know, ability to get stuff done on a reasonable time frame.
Speaker A:You said a trust is.
Speaker A:Everything is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I have, right now I'm, I'm helping a client that is going through some legal issues.
Speaker A:And he said, marco, we have to prepare everything.
Speaker A:All the backups, all the compliance have to be like top, like ready to go at a short notice.
Speaker A:So he had to open to me and say, okay, this is what's happening.
Speaker A:This is what I need to do.
Speaker A:I may or may not go to court or whatever.
Speaker A:Please make sure everything is compliant.
Speaker A:That's the trust.
Speaker A:If the clients don't trust you, they, you know, though this is not gonna work.
Speaker A:And I'm happy to help them go through this transition.
Speaker B:What do you Think are the.
Speaker B:I can see some of the challenges of running a one man shop, right.
Speaker B:Like hey, you know, response times, setting expectations.
Speaker B:What do you do when you're out, you know, on vacation?
Speaker B:I'm sure there's a litany of things that you have to have plans for so that you know how to solve that thing right.
Speaker B:Rather than oh, there's just always someone sitting there watching the queue.
Speaker A:Number one, we, we, we, you mentioned number one is when I take vacation, it's, I need to have.
Speaker A:I, I travel with my laptop.
Speaker A:I can do a lot of remote service, no problem.
Speaker A:But I, I'm being very lucky to meet some other guys like me that also either solo nimble MSPs like me or they have one or two employees.
Speaker A:Those guys are awesome.
Speaker A:And when I go on vacation, if I go overseas because I have one particular client that is my biggest client.
Speaker A:This is an international organization so sometimes I have to travel overseas, they cover for me.
Speaker A:And these guys are extremely good at what they do.
Speaker A:So I'm happy and I deal with them say, or you know what, if you get a call from my clients, my clients know this is my backup.
Speaker A:Call him, I deal with him in terms of billing or whatever.
Speaker A:You don't have to pay him anything.
Speaker A:I deal with them and those guys are awesome.
Speaker A:That's challenge number one.
Speaker A:If I have to travel, challenge number two is you, you the jack of all trades.
Speaker B:You got to be everything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I, I don't know if I sometimes I disagree with that saying that you cannot be, you know, jack of all trademaster or not in it.
Speaker A:I think you have to, you have to.
Speaker A:If somebody calls me and say, hey, I have a situation with, with, with cabling, with networking.
Speaker A:I don't run structured cable, but I have a partner here that all they do is cabling.
Speaker A:But I can go in and design the network and then look at this is the switches, whatever.
Speaker A:So I can help my clients do that.
Speaker A:But I don't do the cabling.
Speaker A:So sometimes my clients say, oh, I need three land drops.
Speaker A:Now I can't.
Speaker A:So that's a limitation when clients ask something outside your scope of competency.
Speaker A:Another also that sometimes I see is the lead generation is an issue.
Speaker A:But more important, the transition from clients that have been on break fix forever and you start to sell them and talk to them, try to sell them MSB say, you know what?
Speaker A:You have paid me on break fix this year.
Speaker A:X amount of dollars.
Speaker A:If I move you to an MSP structure, you probably end up saving money, but you're also going to have more services, more technology, proactive, not reactive, but proactive solutions.
Speaker A:And it's, it's a challenge.
Speaker A:I've seen that challenge.
Speaker A:This is something that I'm facing every day.
Speaker A:Some, some clients that are great clients, they prefer just to pay on demand.
Speaker A:They don't want to get any contracts, any agreements.
Speaker A:So I see that's the challenge for a nimble MSP because that monthly recurring revenue is very important.
Speaker B:What percent of your business is, is recurring versus versus one time.
Speaker A:My percentage right now is like 60, 40 and I, and I really work super hard to raise that 60% up.
Speaker A:I would like to be only break fix 10%.
Speaker A:I would like to have like 90 of my businesses on, on MSB because I keep telling them, you know, you know when you go to the tech drive and you see all the, the speed the spiels on selling is, it's all the point.
Speaker A:They are all those guys are right on point.
Speaker A:When you have somebody on msp you can set up a predictable cost.
Speaker A:Also the stack, the technology stack is important.
Speaker A:If my clients on breakfast I had to figure out what they do and they bought a new software or the nephew of the customer of the aunt refer, you know, recommended some crazy subscription that I had no idea what it is.
Speaker A:When you have an msp we standard the whole thing, right?
Speaker A:From hardware to software.
Speaker A:That's a challenge.
Speaker A:When I, somebody calls me with a problem and I have no idea what they're talking about.
Speaker A:My clients on MSP I have a baseline of 100%.
Speaker B:So what are you doing to incentivize those break fix clients to go to MSP or are they just never going to be able to?
Speaker A:There's a segment that will never be and there's people that buy fundamentally they say I don't want because like it or not, I have a lot of clients that say oh, I don't sign agreements, I just shake hands.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But you know, you and I know that when we have, when we're dealing with MSP services we have to have stuff in writing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:For liability reasons, to protect your cover, your behind and my behind as well.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Also for insurance for many reasons.
Speaker A:Many reasons.
Speaker A:Here in Canada, the.
Speaker A:So I know there's some legislation the states that want to pass to regulate MSPs, we are not as advanced here.
Speaker A:But insurance companies, my insurance company, yeah.
Speaker A:The first thing they ask me is you have to have a contract that covers A, B, C and D and E.
Speaker A:Since I went to law school.
Speaker A:And then I'm also a licensed Paralegal here in Canada.
Speaker A:I don't practice, but I like law, so I got my license just in case.
Speaker A:I know the importance of having contracts and I don't mind reading.
Speaker A:I write.
Speaker A:I read and write my own contracts.
Speaker A:I do, I do it all.
Speaker A:A lot of clients say, no, I don't want a contract, so I cannot give them.
Speaker A:Even if I love it, even it will pay for it.
Speaker A:We have to have an agreement.
Speaker A:So the other part to move the break fixes from mspc, what I start is with backup.
Speaker A:Believe it or not, backup is my gateway drug.
Speaker A:Say you know what, I partner with X vendor to do backup.
Speaker A:Oh, that's true.
Speaker A:Because I only I do my backup of this memory stick or this six.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:We're going to stop doing memory stick backups and we're going to let me put you on this system.
Speaker A:That is something that I monitor and that's it.
Speaker A:Let's try for a year, see how it goes.
Speaker A:And then that's what is called the managed services.
Speaker A:And that works.
Speaker A:That works really well.
Speaker A:When they see, when I send them alerts, you know why your backup didn't work yesterday?
Speaker A:What happened?
Speaker A:Oh, the computer was off.
Speaker A:I knew the computer was off, but I just asked them.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, I saw.
Speaker A:I'm going to turn it on and make sure.
Speaker A:And then they see it.
Speaker A:Six months.
Speaker A:It happened a lot.
Speaker A:Six months under a row.
Speaker A:You know, Marco, let's just switch to that service.
Speaker A:No, and on top of that also I'm going to give you antivirus, you know, anti ransomware protection or an EDR solution.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Because you cannot sell features, right?
Speaker A:They don't understand features.
Speaker A:They have no idea what an EDR is.
Speaker A:I just tell them, you know what if you save a file going to be saved scan when you connect a USB that somebody gives you, the system is going to make sure it's safe.
Speaker A:That's how I sell the system, the subscription, the contract.
Speaker A:And they're happy.
Speaker A:So yeah, the bottom line is, yeah, selling backup works at the beginning and then they decide to move forward to something else.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've heard of some MSPs packaging up kind of like that, right?
Speaker B:Like a basic package of like backups plus RMM plus antivirus.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And then just doing it on a, you know, not, not very expensive, very cheap.
Speaker B:You have it installed so that you can access their stuff, but it's a really low monthly cost for the client.
Speaker B:And then they're throwing TNM on top, right?
Speaker B:Because then it makes your job more efficient.
Speaker B:Have you ever considered something like that?
Speaker B:Or that's like, no, I don't have it.
Speaker A:I do have, I do have that.
Speaker A:What really changed my business because I was, when I started, for the first like 10 years of my business, I was purely break fix, pure break fix.
Speaker A:Everything was prefix.
Speaker A:What really changed the game for me was when I got my first RMM solution that I was able to install agents on computers and monitor.
Speaker A:That's what changed the game for me.
Speaker A:And then the RMM I using now integrates everything I need antivirus.
Speaker B:So which RMM are you using?
Speaker A:Synchro.
Speaker A:I don't know if we can say vendors here.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But yeah, Synchro.
Speaker A:I use synchro and it's wonderful for me because it's unlimited seats.
Speaker A:And that's something that for an MSP like me is, I think is crucial.
Speaker A:If you, you know, I know businesses depending on your size, if, if, if you can buy 100 seats in advance and your subscription is another provider.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know, Ninja, RMM or the other ones are out there.
Speaker A:They're wonderful.
Speaker A:You have the cash flow for Go for it.
Speaker A:In my case, my RMM is increased on limited seats.
Speaker A:So that allows me to put the agent, since I don't have to pay for seats to put the agents on those prospects that I'm not too convinced on becoming msp.
Speaker A:I say, you know what, I can give you a monitoring for free for a month.
Speaker A:Let me just put the agent.
Speaker A:And I show them.
Speaker A:I bring my laptop to them and I show them, okay, this is what I see from your computer.
Speaker A:I see the memory, how much you have, how much the hard drive has left.
Speaker A:And if you get something crazy going on, I will get an alert.
Speaker A:And they, and I show them, I'm an open book.
Speaker A:I show them.
Speaker A:This is how I see your computer.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker A:And if you call me if I need to connect remotely, I can do that.
Speaker A:That's the advantage of having a monthly subscription.
Speaker A:That works a lot.
Speaker A:I cannot do that.
Speaker A:If I had to pay per seat because I'm going to be paying and they decided, oh, let me think about it, for six months I'm going to be paying 60, 70 bucks just for them to think about.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it helps me to have that kind of service.
Speaker A:And then that's how I transition to, to, to them.
Speaker A:So that's what changed the game for me, getting an RMM that allows me to do that.
Speaker B:So I'm also curious about where, I guess where your business is at today.
Speaker B:Do you and I'm very curious about your aspirations.
Speaker B:Like do you want to grow?
Speaker B:Do you want to keep things the same?
Speaker B:It sounds like you want to increase your recurring revenue and then get rid of some of the break fix and have a more stable business.
Speaker B:But like what's your aspirations for this?
Speaker B:Do you want to hire employees at some point or you.
Speaker B:Or you're committed to staying, you know, you and having control?
Speaker A:No, I had techies before.
Speaker A:When I bought that franchise that I told you about at the beginning, I had techies.
Speaker A:I had to actually got it.
Speaker A:The issue with that is I had to generate a lot of revenue just to pay those salaries.
Speaker A:If you ask me if I want to grow, the answer is I don't know.
Speaker A:And that's the reason I want to get.
Speaker A:Because as I said before, I have one client that is my why whale.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It's my.
Speaker A:Is my bread and butter which is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:We mentioned that when I, when I contacted you is it's not a salary because it's not.
Speaker A:I'm a service provider but it's an important part of my revenue because it's a lot of people.
Speaker A:It's very specialized.
Speaker A: that instead of having is the: Speaker A:Right now is starting balance of 60, 40 that we spoke before.
Speaker A:I want to have three, four more of this clients like the one I have right now, which I have the capacity to serve because all the automation these are this client that I'm telling you, for example our universes is like a 650 clients that I have to kind of deal with.
Speaker A:But the air, the RMM and all the automation that I have now allows me to do wonders without spending a lot of time.
Speaker A:I want to do that.
Speaker A:I want to find three, four or five of those of the clients that are large enough but not crazy enough so I can still have my weekends.
Speaker A:Three, but this I will.
Speaker A:I know, I know the threshold the second I hit that threshold and I have to hire a techie to.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To do that, I have no problems at all.
Speaker A:Have I reached that threshold?
Speaker A:No, no, no, I haven't yet.
Speaker A:But I'm open.
Speaker A:Of course, I'm always open.
Speaker A:One of my colleagues is hiring now.
Speaker A:I just got the email this morning.
Speaker A:He's put it on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:He's hiring a techie because he's growing and I, I, I like his model.
Speaker A:So probably I'm, I'm leaning towards that maybe have one take you or two to do that.
Speaker A:But yes, the answer is yes.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:It's time.
Speaker A:It's time.
Speaker A:Because I'm, yeah, we are, we're not getting young.
Speaker A:So it's also timing.
Speaker A:It's is a matter of if, if I started on msp, if I, if I started my msp.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Now, Yes, I will definitely strive for more like aggressive growth in terms of, you know, hiring, you know, doing more sales, hiring somebody that can help me on sales and also hiring another techy to, to, to cover more, more area.
Speaker B:Where do you feel like it's the largest?
Speaker B:Well, I guess where your aspirations want to go and you want to, and you want to find those extra three or four or five clients that are going to be bigger, not small and they're going to have a meaningful impact.
Speaker B:How are you going to go about finding those clients?
Speaker B:Because you have specific parameters that you need to fit for, you know, your model, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Again, I'm lucky that I have some residential clients that are ex executives from big companies and they are very still well connected.
Speaker A:So when I see them, I always talk to them, say this is what I'm looking now.
Speaker A:I'm looking for a.
Speaker A:When I found my mechanics is a good example.
Speaker A:I started servicing one mechanic and I really liked it.
Speaker A:I really like going to a shop, going in the back and I see the other guys fixing cars.
Speaker A:And then auto shops these days are very high tech.
Speaker A:So everything is connected, everything is online.
Speaker A:So I talk to these guys and say, hey, this is what I'm looking for.
Speaker A:I'm looking to expand in this vertical.
Speaker A:And then somebody, some of my mechanics told me, marco, I'm going to connect you with a company in Canada called Shop Pros.
Speaker A:They service mechanics for their own systems, the invoicing, billing, whatever.
Speaker A:I think that's a good connection for you to do.
Speaker A:So my mechanic, which only fixes car, he buys from another vendor.
Speaker A:But he said, you know what, I'll connect you to this vendor of mine because I know there's opportunities there and I'm making inroads towards that kind of expansion because it's within the same industry.
Speaker A:So there's a language that I can speak to them because they're gonna, they asked me, I had talked to other people, say, oh yeah, you use service shops.
Speaker A:So you know what this is, what is that?
Speaker A:And the challenges they do have.
Speaker A:So this is what I'M looking for.
Speaker A:So I don't want to ramble too much.
Speaker A:But this is, this is how, what, what has worked for me is the trust.
Speaker A:I, I, I, I sit down with my clients because I have also my background in business that I, sometimes I wear the hat.
Speaker A:So I take it off and I put it on so I can talk to a guy on returns of investments on, on, on, on, you know, on, on capital gains or whatever it, to reach those goals.
Speaker A:And people seem to respond.
Speaker A:And also politics, politics are huge now in Canada.
Speaker A:So we can talk about, you know, interest rates and all that stuff, how it's affecting the business and they helping me connect to other people that maybe say, you know, Marco, maybe something there.
Speaker A:So for me it's talking to my current clients.
Speaker A:That's what has helped me grow.
Speaker A:And I'm very open, I'm very kind, I'm very lat.
Speaker A:I'm a Latin.
Speaker A:I'm very Latin.
Speaker A:I'll tell them this is what I want to do.
Speaker A:Can you help me?
Speaker A:I always ask for help.
Speaker A:I think I put it on the, on the email I sent you is you have to know when to ask for help.
Speaker A:You have to have a support system.
Speaker A:You have to, you know, I, I ask for help when I need it and that works for me in, and my clients respond and I'm happy for it.
Speaker A:I'm grateful for that.
Speaker B:I'm really curious about, you know, you've obviously had alternatives and options to go, you know, work for an MSP and arguably you could probably make more and take home with less stress working for someone else.
Speaker B:And, and how do you, how have you stayed so committed and what are your motivations there?
Speaker B:Like what's your, what's your thought or have you ever been tempted?
Speaker A:No, I was and I've, I was and I went through, actually I've, I'm not a real life example.
Speaker A:Right after Kobe, believe it or not, Kobe for my business was good, but not, was very good.
Speaker A:So it was good.
Speaker A:But I, I really was, it was not wonderful.
Speaker A:It was good.
Speaker A:I mean I was able to pay the bills.
Speaker A:But a lot of my clients shut down.
Speaker A:A lot of my clients because of the, the pandemic.
Speaker A:They have to leave.
Speaker A:They left the offices.
Speaker A:So they let leases expire and all that.
Speaker A:So I got a job offer and I took it.
Speaker A:I took it.
Speaker A:So you know what I, Wow, this is, they paid, you know, the offer was wonderful that the company was like five minutes from my house and it looks wonderful.
Speaker A:All the package.
Speaker A:I lasted a day.
Speaker A:I quit the next day.
Speaker A:And I'm not ashamed of saying I quit it.
Speaker A:I couldn't do it.
Speaker A:And I told the guy that.
Speaker A:And it was for operations.
Speaker A:For it.
Speaker A:Operations.
Speaker A:And now the excellent salary is sick.
Speaker A:I've been on my own for more than 20 years.
Speaker A:And when these wonderful people say, welcome to the organization, here's your cell phone and your laptop.
Speaker A:Make sure you have this phone open on 24 7.
Speaker A:That's what really freaked me out.
Speaker A:And say, no, no, because I have a lot of clients.
Speaker A:I could hire somebody to take care of my clients and do it again and say, no, if I put somebody else, my clients are going to leave and I know I can do more.
Speaker A:So I decided no.
Speaker A:Next day, bye, bye.
Speaker A:This is not for me, but I set a goal.
Speaker A:And my goal was I have to make whatever they pay me within a year.
Speaker A:Otherwise I'm going back to look for a job.
Speaker A:Otherwise I'm going to feel horrible.
Speaker A:It's going to be, what's the point?
Speaker B:So you set a financial goal?
Speaker A:Financial.
Speaker A:A number I had.
Speaker A:A number I have to make with my business.
Speaker A:The revenue has to be this amount of dollars, which is exactly the month the money they're paying take off, you know, all the bonuses and all that just do net.
Speaker A:The net, the growth, right?
Speaker A:This is the number.
Speaker A:If I can make that number within 12 months, I think I'll believe I made the right choice.
Speaker A:And I did.
Speaker A:Because before, you know, we, you know, as you grow older, you get more comfortable.
Speaker A:Being comfort comfortable is very dangerous, right?
Speaker A:Because yeah, I'm paying the mortgage, I'm paying the bill, I'm paying the car insurance.
Speaker A:I can, you know, go eat a restaurant, I'm good.
Speaker A:The problem is that it's not how the world works, right?
Speaker A:Everything goes up.
Speaker A:In Canada, for example, everything went up 30% after the pandemic.
Speaker A:Everything across the board, everything.
Speaker A:We also had the issue with the exchange rate with the US Dollar.
Speaker A:All our services, all of my subscriptions are US dollars.
Speaker A:So that goes up.
Speaker A:When I moved to Canada, it was parity, $1.
Speaker A:One Canadian, one U.S.
Speaker A:now it's 1.4.
Speaker A:So 1.4 Canadian dollars per U.S.
Speaker A:dollar.
Speaker A:So everything is.
Speaker A:So the temptation that a lot of ms, a lot of IT guys have, which I met a couple that decided to close shop.
Speaker A:And here in this area, you want to get a government job in the province of Ontario, you get a government job with Ontario, you're set for life.
Speaker A:And they happy.
Speaker A:They're super happy.
Speaker A:I cannot, I cannot.
Speaker A:I cannot.
Speaker A:I have to.
Speaker A:Some people Say, yeah, but you only have.
Speaker A:You don't have a boss when you work from your own.
Speaker A:Yeah, I have 290 bosses.
Speaker A:Those are my clients.
Speaker A:And every.
Speaker A:Every one of my bosses is different.
Speaker A:And I love them and I.
Speaker A:I'm happy.
Speaker A:But the temptation is real, my friend.
Speaker A:And it's there all the time.
Speaker A:All the time.
Speaker A:I have a buddy that I trained when.
Speaker A:When we were working back in Venezuela.
Speaker A:I used to work for Compaq Computer back in the old days when Compaq was around.
Speaker A:I trained him when he joined, and he's in the States making a killing.
Speaker A:Super well deserved because this guy is smart as he comes as he comes, and he's making like a million times more than me.
Speaker A:And I'm super happy for him because he's incorporated that you have to find a motivation if you want to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker A:You know, the life of an entrepreneur, we don't do it for the money.
Speaker A:We do it for, you know, so we don't have nobody to tell us what to do, but we have a lot of people to tell us what to do because our clients tell us what to do every day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sorry to ramble about that, but I love that.
Speaker B:That resonates.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I've been in.
Speaker B:I've owned a company, and I've felt at times, you know, I'm a prisoner of my own business, right?
Speaker B:And I was.
Speaker B:I was envious of.
Speaker B:Of some of my employees because my employees could just come in and quit whenever they wanted.
Speaker B:And I'm like, that's freedom.
Speaker B:That's freedom, right?
Speaker B:To be able to pick and choose wherever you like, show up to work and then feel like you don't want to show up.
Speaker B:I was like, wow, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm jealous.
Speaker B:So I've got this stuff that I have to.
Speaker B:I have responsibility.
Speaker B:I have accountability.
Speaker B:That is long term, right?
Speaker A:What I haven't experienced that I would love to maybe, you know, you have an side.
Speaker A:Is the.
Speaker A:What I see with my.
Speaker A:My auto shops, my.
Speaker A:My mechanics is then the new generation of.
Speaker A:Of.
Speaker A:Of technical people because I'm from the old generation, right?
Speaker A:And my.
Speaker A:A lot of my mechanics say we have a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of trouble hiring young guys to do technical work to fix cars because they all want to do it on a tablet, right?
Speaker A:And a lot of that.
Speaker A:Sometimes that doesn't work.
Speaker A:So I have.
Speaker A:I don't know if our.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The guys that come after us because I want to retire.
Speaker A:I'm not going to do this forever.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is how is their Drive is they're willing to like you say you want to.
Speaker A:I don't want to go work.
Speaker A:I don't go.
Speaker A:We cannot do that.
Speaker A:We cannot say, okay, today I don't feel like invoicing my clients or I'm not going to do it.
Speaker A:No, no, you have to.
Speaker A:I don't know, I don't know what the new challenges are for hiring new tech.
Speaker A:Is there something that I need to face when the time comes?
Speaker B:There's lots of options out there in this new world.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So there's, you know, there's local labor, there's also global support.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You can hire internationally, you could hire remote, you know, in some other city.
Speaker B:There's like so many options these days.
Speaker B:And then also the tools that you're buying are kind of, they're, they're, they're taking functions that employees were doing at some point.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you're currently using tools to help run your business.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so automation and AI is going to help you be able to run your one man shop better and faster.
Speaker B:I'm, I'm feeling.
Speaker B:And, and maybe you could scale without having to hire extra.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Given if you set things up the right way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker A:Or hiring this help desk.
Speaker A:The spiritual help desk for T1.
Speaker A:For level one.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I really don't hear, I don't know anybody who has done it.
Speaker A:I've done it and I don't, I don't know the results.
Speaker A:Honestly that, that's also something that I definitely, I hear from the tech tribe that a lot of MSPs have benefited because.
Speaker A:Yeah, because then that you, you can just quote, unquote, unplug yourself or disconnect yourself after 5 or 6pm and you have a tier one help desk at taking those calls.
Speaker A:And I've seen, oh, that's the other thing.
Speaker A:Before that was completely prohibited.
Speaker A:Now I seen the cost is very affordable.
Speaker A:It's just a matter of finding the right partner.
Speaker B:Well, that's awesome.
Speaker B:Well Marco, really appreciate your time and diving into your history, I mean running a one man shop and getting to where you've gotten is awesome and incredible and it seems like you're on the path that you want to be on.
Speaker B:And sounds like you got some growth and opportunities coming up that I hope you figure out that path and make the best of it.
Speaker A:Oh man, this was awesome.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:And that's why we're here to learn.
Speaker A:We might not have all the answers, but again that support system like when I found you from, from the tech, the tech tribe has been awesome for me.
Speaker A:I can ask questions.
Speaker A:That's huge.
Speaker A:That's huge.
Speaker A:I'm telling you.
Speaker A:That's how I found you.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I go to my tech.
Speaker A:The Tech tribe is on my bookmarks every day.
Speaker A:It opens when I open my browser because I love seeing what's happening there, and it's important.
Speaker A:So thank you so much.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This was what?
Speaker A:Wonderful.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Thanks, Marco.
