From SysAdmin to MSP Owner to MSP Coach: Brian Hoppe's Epic Journey
Title: From SysAdmin to MSP Owner to MSP Coach: Brian Hoppe's Epic Journey
Subscribe to email list for future episodes: https://mspowner.aweb.page/p/b75b0b01-5300-477e-b0f1-0de6d899a18d
MSP Owner Podcast website: MSP Owner website
Looking to sell your MSP or partner to take your business to the next level? DataTel actively seeking to acquire quality MSPs to it's capability & client base. If you own an MSP generating more than $1M in revenue annually seeking and wanting a change, contact ben@datatelco.com .
Dive deep into the incredible journey of Brian Hoppe, a seasoned IT leader who's not just played the game but has changed it! With over two decades of experience in the managed services and IT industry, he's been through the trenches and come out ahead. Starting as a systems admin, he climbed the ranks to owning Unicom Technologies, which he successfully sold. But that's not where the story ends! Now, he's coaching MSP owners, sharing his wisdom on navigating the ever-evolving IT landscape. This episode isn’t just about the highs; Brian shares some real talk about the challenges he faced, the pivotal decisions that shaped his career, and how peer groups played a transformative role in his growth. If you're in the IT field or just love a good success story, this chat is packed with insights and a sprinkle of humor that'll keep you entertained!
Takeaways:
- Brian Hoppe's journey in IT spans over two decades, showcasing his growth from systems admin to entrepreneur and coach.
- The importance of peer groups and benchmarking was highlighted as a game changer for business growth and efficiency.
- Brian emphasizes that a business's success often hinges on the owner's personal growth and leadership skills.
- Transitioning from break-fix to managed services was a major turning point for Brian's company, leading to significant growth.
- Documentation and process automation are key strategies for maintaining efficiency while scaling a business in the IT sector.
- Brian's coaching focuses on helping MSP owners enhance leadership skills and achieve their financial and business goals.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome to the MSP Owner Podcast.
Speaker B:Today I have the pleasure speaking with Brian Hoppe, a seasoned IT leader and entrepreneur with over two decades of experience in the managed services and IT industry.
Speaker B:Brian is currently a strategic coach to MSP owners at Brian Hoppe Consulting.
Speaker B:Brian has more than 20 years of experience in the IT services space.
Speaker B:Brian was also the owner of an MSP called Unicom Technologies that he grew substantially and ultimately sold to general informatics a few years ago.
Speaker B:Brian's journey is a fascinating one, from becoming a systems admin to management to owner and now coach.
Speaker B:So we're going to dive into Brian's background, his approach in navigating the evolving IT services market, and the pivotal decisions that impacted his career.
Speaker B:So I'm excited to share his founding story and get insights from him as much as possible.
Speaker B:So, Brian, thanks for joining me on MSP Owner.
Speaker A:Thanks for having me, Ben.
Speaker A:I'm excited.
Speaker A:This is going to be fun.
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:I'm excited for, to really dig in.
Speaker B:I, you know, we know each other personally and through, you know, you've actually helped me in a number of different ways, including, you know, the assessment of my current MSP platform datatelling, which was insanely valuable.
Speaker B:So first of all, thank you for that.
Speaker B:You're welcome.
Speaker B:So why don't we jump into hearing a bit about where you started.
Speaker B:How did you get into the IT industry?
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, we have to go way, way back.
Speaker A:So I'm like one of the, one of the few people that I know that actually went to school for this stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So like I, I knew even back in high school that I wanted to be in technology.
Speaker A:I was kind of the, you know, the computer guy of the family and that kind of a thing.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, so, so I actually studied information systems in college, went to Baylor and, and I actually would, I did.
Speaker A:I learned a lot about actually how to do systems administration as part of my degree.
Speaker A:Not really, but I did work at the Baylor Computer store.
Speaker A:So I learned a lot about, you know, about computers and how to, how to build them, fix them, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:So that's kind of where I got the, the start, I would say is there.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, I mean, pretty much straight out of out of school.
Speaker A: Back in the early: Speaker A:You know, I was working for the owner and then.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And so, so that's kind of how I got the start I could go and do a whole story, but I'm.
Speaker B:Curious about why, you know, why did you like the I industry?
Speaker B:Like, like, it sounds like you had a proclivity when you were young to, to get in.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I think that I just had a, you know, I, I, I always tinkered with stuff.
Speaker A:Like, even as a kid I would take stuff apart, like, take away my, take apart my like remote control car and like completely break it, but just because I wanted to know what was inside and everything.
Speaker A:And so, you know, I, I knew that I, I liked to, I liked technology, I like to work with technology.
Speaker A:And that was pretty much it.
Speaker A:And then I heard that, you know, it guys make a lot of money.
Speaker A:And so that was my, that was the other thing.
Speaker A:I was like, cool, I can make a lot of money and do something that's kind of fun and, and I don't have to talk to that many people while I do it, so, so that's great too.
Speaker A:I was, I was wrong about that.
Speaker A:But that's, that's another, another piece of the story.
Speaker A:But, but yeah, you know, I learned, you know, I learned some development, I learned how I learned some, you know, some networking, all that kind of stuff and found that I really enjoyed it and that I could really like get lost in the work, you know, kind of get in that flow state, if you will, and where it's like, you know, time just flies by and it's like, whoa, you wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, I've been working on this for a long time and having a good time and doing something productive and all that.
Speaker A:And so that's really, I mean, for me, I think that's why I wanted to, or that's why I got into it and why I really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:While, while I was doing it.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:And so you went to school for, you went to school for it and then your first shop that you joined was that McLean Intelligent Solutions or what did you, where did you start your career?
Speaker A:Yeah, it was what would turn into McLean Intelligent Solutions.
Speaker A:But yeah, it was, it was a small two man shop, was called JC Technology Group.
Speaker A:And so, or actually there were three of us, went down to two, back to three, and then, and then we just kind of grew from there.
Speaker A:So, so, and then probably a year or two after I joined is when it was acquired by McLean.
Speaker A: number of years, until about: Speaker B:Was the, the owner carved it out or how exactly did that transaction work?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, basically just carved out of, of the government contracting entity.
Speaker A:So, so that the, the other entity was really focused on development for the Department of Defense.
Speaker A:They, they coded a large army logistics system and so, so it was just, you know there was, there were a, I mean I don't know, several hundred people in that organization at one point and of which we were a small portion and, and it just made sense at that time to kind of.
Speaker A:To make it its own thing and and so yeah, so it was just carved out of that other entity.
Speaker B:So corporate carve out.
Speaker B:And then at that point did you get ownership in the company or did ownership come later?
Speaker A:You know, technically no ownership in the company.
Speaker A:We did have kind of a, I can't remember what we called it but some like a phantom stock kind of plan in that company.
Speaker A:But it is, you know, was solely owned by, by the family.
Speaker A:McLean family.
Speaker A:And so, so yeah, at that point, no, you know, no formal ownership but you know, executive and on the leadership team and all of that.
Speaker B:So got it.
Speaker B:And then the.
Speaker B:How big just for size or scale was, you know, how many employees was it when that carve out happened?
Speaker A:You know, I'll give you my best estimate.
Speaker A:I think it was a.
Speaker A: employee range and around: Speaker A:You know, my memory is, you know, as I, the older I get, it's, it's just going away a little bit little by little.
Speaker A:But no, I think it's, it's probably, that's probably directionally accurate anyway some somewhere in that range.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:So, so what was your experience like there?
Speaker B:It sounds like you got most of your operating chops developed there over a long period of time.
Speaker B:What was that, what was that timeframe and what did that look like work wise for you?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So, so you know, I'm like.
Speaker A:So it started as, as a, you know, network engineer, system admin, you know, that kind of a thing.
Speaker A: ou know, I don't know, around: Speaker A:Really learning about hey, here's what people are doing, here's what managed services looks like versus break fix and just kind of developing into more of a leadership role.
Speaker A: le to managed services around: Speaker A:So from a break fix model.
Speaker A:So we, we, we transitioned all of our clients over.
Speaker A: rvices shop somewhere in that: Speaker A:And that was, that was a whole adventure in and of itself.
Speaker A:But, but you know, kind of learning, hey, here is, you know, starting to learn how, you know, mature MSPs actually run a business.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And, and so, you know, a lot of my learning was kind of hands on, on the job, talking with other people.
Speaker A:Hey, what are you doing?
Speaker A:What are you doing?
Speaker A:Doing user groups for, you know, for like connectwise user groups and things like that at that time.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker B:So you utilized a bunch of peer groups like ConnectWise, IT Nation or, or what were the groups that you were involved in back then?
Speaker A: carved out the company around: Speaker A:But you know, that was, that was a pretty transformative step as far as learning, being able to learn from others who were kind of ahead of us.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that's one of the, I point to three big things that were like key in my, in, in, in the company's growth and my, in my personal growth as an executive in the MSB space.
Speaker A:And that's probably like the first big thing that we did that when I look back, I'm like, oh my gosh, that, that made all of the, that.
Speaker B:Was the defining moment that changed the business and your career.
Speaker A:It was huge.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it was huge.
Speaker A:So, and, and I think, I think on a couple of fronts, I mean, I think one, just like just having other people who know what's going on in your business and can give you the, that advice and accountability and all of those things.
Speaker A:And then the other huge thing that, that you got as part of that was benchmarking, you know, financial benchmarking through service leadership.
Speaker A:And they, you know, they still to this day, you know, they've got thousands of companies that they, you know, they get data for every month you get to, you get to look at your data versus everybody else, understand exactly where you're off from, where the best in class performers are and pull the right levers in order to get to that best in class profitability based on, based on all of that data and that, you know, as Far as my financial, you know, chops and, and all that was that.
Speaker A:That was a huge piece of that as well, being part of the peer group too.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it sounds like you were really data driven and best practice metrics driven pretty early on in the transition, which is not surprising why you and the companies you're associated with were successful, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that was, it was part of the learning process.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I didn't know inherently know any of that stuff, but by putting myself around other people who, who really did, it was like, oh, okay, I'm, you know, learn this stuff pretty quickly and, and it does.
Speaker A:It starts to make, you know, it starts to be like, I don't know how I ever ran a business without that data.
Speaker A:The metrics, the, you know, understanding what maturity looks like based on, you know, based on what the best in class are doing.
Speaker A:All of those things.
Speaker A:I mean, it's, it's like, how did I ever do without all that?
Speaker A:But, you know, a lot of people do still to this day, and, and whether by choice or, or because they just don't know what else is out there.
Speaker A:I mean, you can still have a successful MSP without it, but I think that it's like a cheat code.
Speaker B:So 100% and, and peer groups, obviously.
Speaker B:I think that's a huge one.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker B:Hi, I'm Ben Tigelar, the host of MSP Owner podcast and the CEO of Datatel, an IT managed service provider with 35 employees.
Speaker B:The mission of this podcast is simple.
Speaker B:To have authentic conversations with IT owners about their journey, how it started, the challenges they faced, and where they're going next.
Speaker B:Every episode, I personally walk away with a new actionable item to strengthen my own business.
Speaker B:But a quick word about my company, Datatel.
Speaker B:We are actively acquiring MSPs who align with our service and culture.
Speaker B:So if your company is generating between 1 and $10 million of revenue, I want to talk to you.
Speaker B:But wait, you're probably thinking, why me and why Datatel?
Speaker B:First is, I get you.
Speaker B:I understand the challenges MSP owners face.
Speaker B:Being one myself, feeling overworked, overwhelmed, constantly being on call, struggling to bring in new business.
Speaker B:I have the solutions and people in place to address these pain points.
Speaker B:Second is culture.
Speaker B:We run our business on EOS entrepreneurial operating system, which has been transformative for our employees and clients alike.
Speaker B:I believe that building a great company comes down to finding and retaining great people who are in the right seats.
Speaker B:Everything else is noise.
Speaker B:If any of this resonates, it probably means we're a fit and we should be having a conversation.
Speaker B:Until then, let's get back to the show.
Speaker B:Walk me through the transition from McLean to starting Udacom.
Speaker B:How did that develop behind the scenes?
Speaker B:And I assume there was probably some pain points you're having along the line or you wanted to do something new.
Speaker B:Can you talk to me about that, you know, experience?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I think at, at some point in there it got to where in part, probably peer groups were part of this where it's like, yeah, I see all these, these other owners who are, you know, building something for themselves and for, you know, for their legacy.
Speaker A:And, and I, you know, as, as time went on I was like, hey, I've actually think I've figured out how to do this.
Speaker A:I think I could probably do this for myself.
Speaker A:And so, you know, so I kind of, I mean, set out on that journey and it was, it was a, you know, it was a series of steps.
Speaker A:I didn't know exactly what I was going to do or exactly how I was going to do it, but I did know I kind of wanted to move towards that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A: I left, I left McLean in, in: Speaker A:They would install the systems and support IT and all that, but, you know, whenever there'd be a problem with the network or that kind of a thing, they kind of couldn't do anything about it.
Speaker A:And so he was always like, yeah, I'd love to do that.
Speaker A:And so we kind of got together on that and bought a small local MSP IT company and then kind of, you know, ran that for, as a, kind of a sister company of the, of the credit union software company.
Speaker A:And so I was CTO at the software company and running the small MSP for quite a while and you know, and just growing that slowly in kind of the credit union space.
Speaker A:So we had, we had that vertical market.
Speaker B:So the MSP was initially kind of a generalist, locally focused msp and then you transition to be, have more of a niche focus within the credit union space.
Speaker A:You've got it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So, so it, and, and that's, you know, obviously and an evolution, right, because you don't just drop all your non, you know, non niche customers.
Speaker A:But so, you know, we, we still had other customers along the way, but predominantly our marketing and outreach and everything was to credit unions through the, through kind of the partnership we had and spending time where credit unions CEOs spend time and, and all of those kind of things.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, so, yeah, that's what, you know, so, so we did that for a couple of years and, and, and then kind of started into a further acquisition strategy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we, and at the time, it was not Unicom.
Speaker A:It was much longer Data Systems Technology Solutions, which is a mouthful.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And so when we acquired Unicom, we decided to change to take that name.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because it was actually larger than we were at the time.
Speaker A:And so, you know, and liked the name better.
Speaker A:And so we said, hey, let's become Unicom.
Speaker A:And so that's what we did.
Speaker A: ed in that acquisition was in: Speaker A:Texas mainly, but also into Louisiana and Oklahoma and some other areas and really focused in banking.
Speaker A:So it was like, it was a very, you know, very sweet spot for us because we were like, hey, we're already doing credit unions, these guys are doing banking.
Speaker A:Makes a whole heck of a lot of sense to kind of.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:So it was both industry and geographically consistent with your current business.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Which is, which is kind of like a unicorn.
Speaker A:Unicorn.
Speaker B:That's very, very attractive.
Speaker B:How did you find that particular company?
Speaker B:Did you go out and solicit them or did they come to you or how did that work?
Speaker A:Yeah, we were actually working with a buy side advisor at the time.
Speaker A:So we had, we had a company on retainer and they would, you know, they would go out and search for the deals and, and kind of bring us, bring us deals.
Speaker A:We do kind of a, you know, a meet of the owners, kind of figure out, hey, is there, you know, is there some potential synergy here?
Speaker A:Those kind of things?
Speaker A:And, and then, you know, after looking through, I don't know, a dozen of those, we, we found a, we, you know, you know, starting, kind of starting stopping with, with several companies.
Speaker A:We, you know, we found one that really, that really worked for us.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B: hen size wise, at that point,: Speaker B:You know, revenue wise, it sounds like Unicom was larger than your base business.
Speaker B:So you, you must have more than doubled.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, we were probably, I mean, small.
Speaker A:Under a million, six or six, seven people Six and a half, seven and a half somewhere around there.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then added probably another 12 on top of that to, you know, to be, to, to be like a 20ish person company.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, so it was, it was, I don't know, double, double to triple the size of, of what we were at the time.
Speaker A:So, you know, not, not highly recommended by the way, for, for people if you haven't done, if you haven't done acquisitions before.
Speaker A:I think, I think I felt, I felt good about it because I'd been, I've been through the process many times, understood what, you know, what to look for, what it was going to take to actually integrate and a lot of the pitfalls that can happen as, as part of an acquisition if you don't do it the right way.
Speaker A:And so, so that was, what were.
Speaker B:What are some of those things?
Speaker B:I can see you smiling.
Speaker B:You're probably thinking like you've got a couple of examples.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, I, and actually a lot of it.
Speaker A:So, so we did, you know, I don't, we probably did three or so in, in the, in my, in the previous msp.
Speaker A:And then I also just got to watch a lot of peers do acquisitions and, or mergers.
Speaker A:And so, you know, some of the things where it's like, hey, we're going to merge.
Speaker A:Merging becomes a big problem a lot of times because it's like, okay, well if we're not doing the exact same thing with the exact same systems and we don't have the same contracts and the same way we deal with our employees and all of that, there's going to be major conflicts.
Speaker A:And so if you're trying to do a committee of like, hey, you know, we now we have, we have three owners, we're all equals and we're all going to decide together who's doing it things the best and then adopt that way of doing things, it doesn't really work very well.
Speaker A:Not only, not only on the, you know, not only is it inefficient, but it's also quite, you know, or it's conflict laden.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so everything takes longer.
Speaker A:You do a worse job dealing, servicing your clients, you start to lose clients.
Speaker A:There's, you know, and there's a lot of, you know, other negative consequences that come from all that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, so, so knowing like, hey, here, you know, this is the way we're going to do things and there's one person making the decisions about that and, and having a plan in place for, for those things to happen.
Speaker A:Those are kind of the, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's what, that's what's at the top of my mind anyways, as far as, like, as far as that goes.
Speaker A:And then just having the experience of having done it before you, you learn so much in that process that it's, it's hard to overstate.
Speaker A:Like, you can't, it's almost like you can't learn it by osmosis.
Speaker A:You have to actually go through it in order to learn what not to do.
Speaker B:From a client perspective.
Speaker B:When you're, you know, you're integrating, you're changing systems, you're changing processes, you're changing the way you do business with clients a lot of the times.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So how did you handle that?
Speaker B:As you, as you.
Speaker B:It sounds like maybe you didn't have as much of an impact because UNICOM was, maybe had better best practices because they were bigger or.
Speaker A:No, in a lot of cases.
Speaker A:Yes, in a lot of cases they did.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because we were in the previous one still in the process of kind of putting together the platform, if you will.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so it was like, hey, there's a lot of stuff going on over here that's actually much better.
Speaker A:So let's just do, let's just stick with that.
Speaker A:We can throw our clients on there.
Speaker A:Easy, cheesy.
Speaker A:And that's a lot of what happened.
Speaker A:And then also, you know, then, then there were some systems that it was like, hey, this, you know, the PSA is not really set up well anyways, and so let's just go ahead and do a new, you know, new implementation of it and get it, do it right the first time so that it's not, you don't have this old cobbled together thing that doesn't really work anyways.
Speaker A:You get it, you get it done right and put in place and then you're kind of off to the races with that, that.
Speaker B:So how did you handle it employee wise?
Speaker B:Because it's, you're meshing five with 15 to 20 people.
Speaker B:The small guy is now, you know, owning and running the company.
Speaker B:I'm sure there was some interesting employee things that happened.
Speaker B:What, you have anything you could share there?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I think with, with team.
Speaker A:It's, you know, it's about, it's about spending the time and getting to know the people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like it was still at a size where I could spend time with each and every person and understand where they're coming from and, and what are they, what are they passionate about, what do they want to do?
Speaker A:Are they on board?
Speaker A:With our, with our culture, with our values or at least what we aspire to be as a, you know, as a, you know, kind of a new combined organization.
Speaker A:And the reality of it is that usually not everybody wants to go along for the ride.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So there was kind of, yeah, there was a key person who, who didn't want to and, and you know, didn't essentially, you know, you, you kind of transfer employment from one entity to the other and, and just didn't want to.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Okay, well, great.
Speaker A:We're gonna have to figure out how to backfill that and you know, and you know, make sure that that skill set is covered and when that person.
Speaker B:Left or indicated they were going to leave, what was going walk, like what was the decision making process?
Speaker B:And how did you feel in those, those moments?
Speaker B:Did you feel like you were exposed or you were like, I can handle this?
Speaker B:Like, what was your mindset back then?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think for, I think at the time, I mean, I think I was really nervous about it.
Speaker A:Right, because you know, you're, you're talking to, I mean really, you're just talking with the owner before a transaction.
Speaker A:You're, I mean, at least in this, in this scenario, I think we, we did, I did talk with one or two of the, of the team members there.
Speaker A:This person who didn't want to come along was, was a, was a key technician, like very high level, you know, tier 4, probably type technician and, and had, you know, a lot of valuable experience.
Speaker A:And so I was like, wow, we're losing our top tier skill here.
Speaker A:How much of a problem is this going to be?
Speaker A:And yeah, so I think I was really nervous about that and, and I was like, well, how, you know, yeah, are we going to be able to kind of make this work?
Speaker B:And was the owner staying on as well?
Speaker A:Yes, actually, yeah, the owner did.
Speaker B:Okay, that probably helped a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah, it helped, it helped a lot.
Speaker A:And, and, and he was fantastic, by the way.
Speaker A:I mean, he's, he was getting to retirement age, so he was like, hey, I want to make sure that this is good, this is secure, all of that and, and I want to stick around for a couple of years.
Speaker A:And I'm like, fantastic.
Speaker A:You know, who, you know, hopefully, hopefully that works out well and everything and, and doesn't always, you know, work out well.
Speaker A:You know, a lot of times they just end up wanting to, to move on after, you know, a few months or a year or something like that.
Speaker A:But, and he actually ended up staying on for more than two years, you know, and, and sticking around and, and continuing to help out.
Speaker A:So, you know, a lot of the relationships and, and all of those things, you know, keeping up those, keeping up the relationships and helping to keep clients happy and all those things.
Speaker A:He was, you know, really instrumental as part of that in, in the continuity across, you know, across the, the transition period.
Speaker A:So I think if he hadn't stuck around, it would have been, it would have definitely been harder, for sure.
Speaker B:Fascinating.
Speaker B:So you acquired the company.
Speaker B:It sounds like you have.
Speaker B:You had one active partner, right.
Speaker B:A primary partner, and then you had this more passive owner who was ultimately going to leave.
Speaker B:So you had three owners in the group.
Speaker A:I had a, I had a partner.
Speaker A:I mean, essentially a silent partner.
Speaker A:He was not involved in the business at all.
Speaker A:Yeah, we would talk every two, three, four weeks and, and that was, you know, that was about it.
Speaker A:It wasn't, you know, he had his own thing that he was running and all of that, which is great to have a, you know, kind of a financial partner like that who's, who's like, hey, you know, just tell me how great things are going.
Speaker A:I, I don't need to, I don't need to know all the details.
Speaker A:You know, obviously we'd collaborate on big decisions or those kind of things, but other than that, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was, it was me, you know, running, running everything.
Speaker B:So nice.
Speaker B:So you were 20ish employees, and then now you, now you're running this thing.
Speaker B:You're saying, hey, I want to grow this.
Speaker B: Sounds like: Speaker B:You probably built the foundation from there.
Speaker B: But what did: Speaker B:Can you walk me through, through that period?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you know, so probably year one, year one was a lot of integration and some, some changes brought on an Ops leader switch, PSAs, those kind of things.
Speaker A:So it's like the combination of trying to grow it but.
Speaker A:But really, actually really trying to stabilize.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:For that, for that first year.
Speaker A: So: Speaker A: eah, that pro happened August: Speaker A:Then you get to, you know, about a year out and we're in and we were, you know, adding clients, you know, relatively consistently at that point.
Speaker A:And, but I think the, I think the big thing was that we were also becoming more efficient as we went, and so we didn't need to add headcount as we were growing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we were, we were, we were growing in efficiency, in revenue and efficiency without having to add headcount.
Speaker A:And that was fantastic.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:That's unusual.
Speaker B:How did you do both grow and stay efficient?
Speaker B:Was it a people thing?
Speaker B:Was it process?
Speaker B:Like, what do you attribute that uniqueness to?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So, so one, I'll, I'll point to two things.
Speaker A:One, great, a fantastic ops leader, and he was really, really focused on, on automation and inefficiency.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's like a constant process of, okay, what's, what are the issues that are taking up the most time and how do we automate the heck out of this so that we can save on hours?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's looking at the hours, looking at, looking at what's, what's taking those hours, and then saying, okay, how can we make this not a thing anymore?
Speaker A:Okay, great, we can, we can script for this and, and, and put something in place.
Speaker A:So, okay, this is, this is no longer an issue.
Speaker A:And you, you're consistently doing that.
Speaker A:So that's one piece.
Speaker A:The other piece is that we put, we, we implemented what I'm, you know, a culture of documentation.
Speaker A:We talked about it often.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so the thing was, and, and, and this is, you know, this was stolen from Nigel Moore.
Speaker A:I don't know if you know him, but it's like, hey, tech tribe.
Speaker A:Yeah, Tech tribe.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But it's like, hey, at any given point in time, you're either documenting something or, you know, or, yeah, you're documenting a process, you're following the process, or you're, you're updating the documentation of that process at any given time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So whatever you're doing, there should be something written down for it.
Speaker A:If there's not, you should write that down.
Speaker A:And then we, and then we had somebody who was, you know, kind of the documentation guru, so to speak.
Speaker A:So it's like all of our internal processes were written out for, hey, here's how you do this thing.
Speaker A:And it's done consistently.
Speaker A:And so there's less rework and just becoming more and more efficient as time goes on with that.
Speaker A:And yeah, and I think by the time we sold, we had 7, 800 of those kind of process documents in, out there in the library, something like that.
Speaker A:I'm not sure of the numbers.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:But, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And I, and by the way, I didn't create any of them probably personally.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But our team did.
Speaker A:And that was kind of part of the, you know, just.
Speaker A:Yeah, we made it part of the culture.
Speaker B:How did you start that, how did you start to make it part of the culture?
Speaker A:I think it's that, it's, it's what I just told you, having that conversation on Repeat over and over and over again.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it's the same thing, right?
Speaker A:So we'd have, we'd have a team meeting every other week.
Speaker A:But it's the same thing with our, you know, our core purpose, our, Our bhag.
Speaker A:Here's where we're going.
Speaker A:Our, Our core, you know, our values, our behaviors.
Speaker A:Like, we would talk about it all the time and like, I would talk about it till I'm blue in the face until everybody actually could, like, remember, you know, like, how many teams do you know where it's like they can actually say they can actually remember all of your core values if you asked them.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And I think, yeah, you know, I mean, if I popped quiz people, I mean, they probably not everybody could remember all of them, but they could probably mostly remember them because we talk about it all the time.
Speaker A:We made it part of the culture so that, you know, so that people.
Speaker A:People knew and understood.
Speaker A:And, and it's the same thing with the, with the documentation.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, what'd you do, you know, what documentation did you update today?
Speaker A:And in, in.
Speaker A:In continually building that library?
Speaker A:And, and yeah, so, so I think that's, I think it's just like repetition because, yeah, often as leaders, we, you know, we think, hey, you know, well, I already told you to do that, so you should just remember and do it, because I said that's what we're doing.
Speaker A:But I find that the repetition until you feel like, man, I've said this a thousand times.
Speaker A:Once you feel like you've said it way too much, then people start to get it right.
Speaker A:And then, you know, and the more and more you, you reinforce it, the, the, the better.
Speaker A:The better gets kind of embedded into the team and in the culture.
Speaker B:I've personally been guilty of, of doing kind of something similar, but creating SOPs, creating a structure and then not getting the team to actually adopt it, right?
Speaker B:Then it just sits on the shelf and then it becomes.
Speaker B:Becomes old very quickly.
Speaker B:So that's one of the tried and true challenges that basically every business faces.
Speaker A:I think you're right.
Speaker B:So you grew, you focused in the financial services space.
Speaker B:As, as it sounds like most of your growth came from there.
Speaker B:Can you.
Speaker B:I'm curious about when you decided to sell unicom, right?
Speaker B:You had spent, sounds like four or five, six years running Unicom.
Speaker B:How did you come to that situation?
Speaker B:What drove it?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So in.
Speaker A:Nowadays I joke with a lot of my buddies in the.
Speaker A:Who've sold.
Speaker A:It's, it's, you know, you don't choose the time, the time chooses you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that's what, that's what happened to me.
Speaker A:I think, you know, the process kind of got kicked off because my business partner was, was looking at, was looking at the possibility of selling his business, his other business that I wasn't a part of.
Speaker A:And, and somehow our financials got into the hands of some private equity people and so that kind of, that.
Speaker A:Well, you know how.
Speaker A:Because he shared them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But that's how the process got kicked off.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, well we have like five to 10 more years of doing this before we get where we want to go.
Speaker A:Like, should we, you know, do we really want to even entertain this?
Speaker A:It's just a distraction, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker A:But you know, but yeah, entertained it.
Speaker A:And in, yeah.
Speaker A:And so it became a process of, hey, we're, you know, we, we ended up talking to two different private equity groups as part of it and, and having conversations over the course of a summer, you know, probably, yeah, probably a good 60 to 90 days between like May, June, July, August, something like that.
Speaker A:And you know, finally and, and came up, came to a deal that was like, yeah, I think this, this could really make sense for us to, for us to move forward.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I mean it, it was, it was probably like not, you know, specifically like, hey, now we're ready to sell.
Speaker A:Let's go out and you know, let's go out.
Speaker B:And it wasn't a formal process.
Speaker B:You kind of opportunistically approached and you're like, oh, maybe we should check this out.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And this was the, like just postco time, you know, things are starting to come back and, and all of that.
Speaker A: s was, you know, probably mid-: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I mean it does strike me as interesting as, you know, you're not at retirement age or at least it doesn't look like it.
Speaker B:You're, you look like a very young strapping lad.
Speaker B:So that is something interesting is middle.
Speaker B:You know, I would say like mid career people who ultimately sell their business.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Their motivations might be different than someone who's retiring.
Speaker B:So how did you come to that?
Speaker B:Because, you know, I know a lot of owners think they have a number in mind when they, what they think their business is worth or, you know, they need to get a certain amount of money for retirement.
Speaker B:What was going through your head given where you're at in that part of your career?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I think, I think a few things were, you know, number one or.
Speaker A:Well, I'll give you like, I'll give you reasons that I, you know, decided to move forward with it, right?
Speaker A:So one was like I, I wanted to be a part of a larger msp, right?
Speaker A:So you know, so the, I mean the company was probably, I don't know, eight times the size of, of ours that bought us something like that.
Speaker A:Five, you know, five to eight times the size.
Speaker A:And so being a part of something bigger and seeing like, hey, how, you know, how does it work at a bigger scale?
Speaker A:Right, well, what I found was on that is it's actually not too much different.
Speaker A:There's some different things that you do, you have different resources and all of that, but guess what?
Speaker A:The numbers work the same.
Speaker A:You serve people in a lot of the same ways, but there's obviously key differences.
Speaker A:But, but anyways, yeah, so, so working for a larger msp, getting chips off the table was a, was a big thing for me of, of being like, hey, actually, you know, this kind of my first, my first big event, so to speak.
Speaker A:And so it was like, hey, yeah, this is gonna, this is gonna enable me to do some things that I would like to do.
Speaker A:Take some chips.
Speaker B:You wanted to get some, you want to get some, some, you want to get some score on the, on the scoreboard.
Speaker B:Wanted to, to get that first, first, you know, big, big win.
Speaker A:Yeah yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean that was, that was a huge, a huge part of it for me and you know, and then while also, you know, being able to roll over equity into the, the new larger private equity backed entity that's ideally, you know, was going to, you know, produce a, a multiple on that, on that, that's, you know, that equity that's, that's left in, in, in there.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So, so I, I think those were some key things.
Speaker A:I think there were, you know, some good, good opportunities for my team members and you know, I, I, I chose a place that I felt like would be a good home for, for, for the team.
Speaker A:And yeah, and so I think those would be kind of some of the big, big factors for me anyways as.
Speaker B:I'm any, any days.
Speaker B:Do you ever regret selling for any reason?
Speaker A:I think there's, you know, some pieces like some things that I miss right about, about my business, especially my team and the leadership team that we had in place was just, was fantastic.
Speaker A:I mean I loved working with the people that I worked with and so yeah, you know, I definitely miss that from time to time and still keep in touch regularly with a lot of people that were on that team.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But, you know, but all in all, it's like, would you go back and, you know, undo it?
Speaker A:No, I mean, like, I just.
Speaker A:I wouldn't.
Speaker A:And, and you know, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm thankful for what it was and, you know, and, and glad to.
Speaker A:To be doing what I'm doing now, so.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:Well, good.
Speaker B:Good transition.
Speaker B:Really interested to hear about how your consulting and coaching efforts have been going.
Speaker B:That was something that, you know, when someone sells, they have to also ask themselves, what am I going to do next?
Speaker B:And I'm curious about what was the answer to that question right after you sold and how did it turn into this consulting and coaching engagement?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, yes, I mean, I actually, you know, as part of it, I transitioned into a leadership role at the acquiring.
Speaker A:So I essentially ran our Texas, you know, Texas or West Western Market region.
Speaker A:And, and we did, you know, a few acquisitions as part of that.
Speaker A:And you know, at the end of the day, I'm.
Speaker A:I think I figured out I wasn't good at having a boss anymore.
Speaker A:So that was, you know, it had been a while since I, Since I had somebody that I reported to.
Speaker A:Um, and then, you know, and then just realizing, like, hey, there's this.
Speaker A:There's this dream that I've kind of had inside of me for a long time and, and, and then having the.
Speaker A:The time resources Runway to actually pursue that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so, you know, so I, I stayed for a year and a few months after the acquisition and then, and, and then, you know, took.
Speaker A:Took a little bit of time off a month or so, and then kind of launched out into this.
Speaker A:Right, So a month.
Speaker B:Yeah, Brian.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Wasn't that a month?
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker A:How long has that ever taken off of anything before?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, the longest I'd taken off before that, I think was like 10 days in, like my whole career.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I felt like it was like, amazing and you know, but.
Speaker A:But now, like, now what I'm doing, it feels like one big vacation because it's just so much fun.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker A:I just took a month off and, and, and the.
Speaker A:I pointed back to, like, I.
Speaker A:You know, one of the things that we.
Speaker A:That we did kind of relatively early on was we actually, we got an executive coach for the leadership team that when I was back at McLean, and in that.
Speaker A:That experience working with it was Harden Byers, the guy that I.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:That was my Coach at the time.
Speaker A:So transformative for me at that point I was like, I'm going to do this one day.
Speaker A:I'm going to be like.
Speaker A:Or, you know, I'm definitely, I'm not like hardened.
Speaker A:But you know, he's, he's, he's really, really good.
Speaker A:But I'm like, I'm helping people in the same way and that's, you know, the fulfillment that that comes with that is just can't overstate, you know, the, you know, the, the being able to kind of, yeah.
Speaker A:Move forward with that dream that I had for probably over 10 years at that point when I started doing this is, it's been, it's just been fantastic.
Speaker B:So can you explain what your coaching business is?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
Speaker A:So, so the majority of the work that I do is, is working one on one with MSP owners to, you know, essentially help them, help them grow themselves and help them grow their business.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Those are the two things I, you know, so, so I'm, I work with about, yeah, right around 20 MSP owners right now and we meet on a, on a ongoing cadence and spend time working on the key things in their business and building themselves as a leader.
Speaker A:The biggest thing I find when I have conversations and I've had conversations with over 100 MSP owners this year is is that the, the biggest hindrance to their company growing is looking at them in the mirror.
Speaker A:And if you can find that, that means that it's your, it's you.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like if you're the owner, like the, your business is optimally set up to produce exactly the results that it's, that it's producing.
Speaker A:And unless something changes, then it's going to continue producing the same results that it's been producing.
Speaker A:And in a lot of the time, the change that needs to happen is, is in the owner themselves.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because obviously the, the, the owner is responsible for all the decisions that have been made for the business to be exactly where it's at right now.
Speaker A:And so, so, so we look at, you know, we look at everything from, from leadership to strategy, vision, execution, maturity, financials, you know, all of those things to really help to.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, it's like, hey, let's, let's figure out how to produce more enterprise value for you and help you achieve your personal financial goals as well as your company evaluation goals.
Speaker A:And so yeah, so that's probably you know, a nutshell of, of, of the work that I do with, with owners.
Speaker B:So my company Datatel, we run on EOS or entrepreneurial operating system.
Speaker B:Do you utilize a specific operating system you've created your own or, or how does, how does that function?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, so, so I do, I, I do do an business operating system implementation.
Speaker A:It is not eos.
Speaker A:It is probably similar, it's similar in a lot of ways, but we run on a different cadence and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:So it's, it's kind of a custom made business operating system.
Speaker A:But guys, you know, created by and implemented by guys who used to run EOS and maybe didn't want to join up with the, you know, the franchise model and one of those gotcha.
Speaker A:So, but, but yeah, and we specifically tailor for, for MSP owners like you know, so it's, it's more so consultative as well and a little, we're a little more embedded in your business than like an EOS implementer would be.
Speaker A:But, but yeah, so, so I do do that as well.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker B:I'm a huge advocate of, of coaching and peer groups and it, it's just had such a huge impact on, on my business specifically and unlocked me in, in many different ways.
Speaker B:I mean I'm in, I'm in three different peer groups and we've got an EOS coach and implement and it's been, been transformative for us and my team.
Speaker B:So it is really interesting meeting other owners who haven't stepped into that world.
Speaker B:You know, they might have been an owner for 15 years and they've never done anything like it.
Speaker B:And I'm like part of me shaking my head like man, you are missing out on the special sauce and it makes, makes work a lot more fun.
Speaker B:But also I don't have anything to sell, so.
Speaker B:But no, that's really cool.
Speaker B:I'm sure your clients get a ton of value from you.
Speaker B:I mean I, I specifically got a ton of value from you as I was assessing my acquisition of data tell in an industry that I hadn't been in at all.
Speaker B:I had no experience so I relied on someone like Brian to, to, to help me.
Speaker B:So that's cool.
Speaker B:I appreciate the help though, by the way.
Speaker A:Absolutely, man.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:It's, it's, it's so fun.
Speaker A:You know, I, it's like.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just, I just love doing it.
Speaker A:So I'm glad, I'm glad it's helpful.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Well, thanks for sharing your story, man and hopefully we'll, we'll have you on in the near future or you know, as you, as you do more things for more clients.
Speaker B:I'm sure you'll have a lot more stories to tell.
Speaker A:Absolutely, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker A:Always love to come back whenever.
Speaker A:Whenever it makes sense.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And anyway, any places that I can add value.
Speaker A:The more the better.
Speaker A:So glad to be here with you, man, and great conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks, Brian.
Speaker B:Talk to you soon.
Speaker A:All right, thanks.
