Dan Burt (Solzorro IT Services): From Firefighting to....MSP Services
Today, we're diving into the epic journey of Dan Burt, the owner of Solzorro IT Services, who's been hustling in the MSP world for 14 years. He’s grown his Utah-based company to a whopping $1.6 million in annual revenue with a team of 10—most of it recurring revenue! We’ll chat about the rollercoaster ride of going from solo entrepreneur to managing a crew, and how he navigated the tricky waters of hiring and scaling. Plus, I'll share how Dan’s been a mentor to me as I took my own plunge into the MSP business.
Title: Dan Burt (Solzorro IT Services): From Firefighting to....MSP Services
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Looking to sell your MSP or partner to take your business to the next level? DataTel actively seeking to acquire quality MSPs to it's capability & client base. If you own an MSP generating more than $1M in revenue annually seeking and wanting a change, contact ben@datatelco.com .
Dan Burt, the mastermind behind Solzorro IT Services, takes us on a wild ride through his entrepreneurial journey in this episode. Picture this: a part-time tech whiz turned full-time MSP owner, juggling clients and a growing team. Dan shares how he navigated the transition from a solo act to leading a crew of ten, all while scaling his revenue to a whopping $1.6 million annually. It's a relatable tale of grit, lessons learned, and the occasional facepalm moment that every MSP owner can connect with. He’s not just about the numbers, though; he dives deep into the emotional rollercoaster of growing a business—think sleepless nights worrying about payroll, the thrill of landing new clients, and the bittersweet symphony of employee turnovers. Spoiler alert: there’s a heartwarming twist as Dan reflects on how his past influences his present, making every challenge feel a little less daunting.
In our chat, we also unpack the art of maintaining relationships with clients, especially when mergers and acquisitions can throw a wrench in the works. Dan’s philosophy? Keep your clients happy, and they’ll fight to keep you around—even when the bigger fish come swimming in. His insights on client referrals are gold; he emphasizes that nurturing those relationships can lead to a network of super referrers who will champion your services. Plus, we get into the nitty-gritty of what it really means to grow in the MSP space today—hint: it's not just about technical skills but mastering the art of communication and trust. So, if you’re an MSP owner or thinking about diving into the deep end of entrepreneurship, grab a seat and get ready for some serious inspiration and actionable tips!
Takeaways:
- In the podcast, Dan Burt shares his journey of transforming from a part-time worker to a thriving owner of Solzorro IT Services with $1.6 million in revenue, showing the importance of perseverance.
- The conversation dives into how building and nurturing relationships with clients can lead to unexpected referrals, which can significantly boost business growth.
- Dan emphasizes the need for MSP owners to remain adaptable, especially as acquisitions often change client relationships and can lead to challenges in maintaining them.
- Hiring the right team members who care about the company can alleviate the burden of ownership, allowing the owner to focus on growth and strategic planning for the future.
- Both speakers highlight the importance of continuous learning and networking within the industry to stay ahead and adapt to changes, especially with the rise of AI.
- Dan points out that personal relationships and family stability are crucial to maintaining a successful business, as they provide a strong foundation for professional growth.
Check out Dan Burt's company here: https://solzorro.com/
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Welcome to the MSP Owner Podcast where we dive into the journeys of managed service providers, unpacking their challenges, wins and insights to help you build, scale and exit your MSP business.
Speaker A:So we've got a good one today.
Speaker A:Dan Burt is the owner of Salzoro IT Services.
Speaker A:He has an MSP based in Utah and they currently generate $1.6 million of annual revenue with a team of 10 employees.
Speaker A:So Dan's journey is an interesting one that I think a lot of other owners can relate to and comment from.
Speaker A:What I've seen is you make the leap from part time to full time entrepreneurship, you hire your first employee and then you get to 10 employees.
Speaker A:So he's done this over the course of 14 years through lots of chapters.
Speaker A:So, you know, personally, I want to thank Dan because he's been a huge resource to me and almost a mentor as I've acquired my first MSP business, Datatel.
Speaker A:So we've, we've, we've gotten into it over the last year or so and excited to have him on.
Speaker A:Welcome, Dan.
Speaker B:Thanks, man.
Speaker B:It's very kind.
Speaker B:Yeah, to be here, man.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm excited to jump into stuff.
Speaker A:I feel like we have, you know, know, just based off of our own personal conversations that we've had about our businesses as well as just stuff relating to your background and how you got here.
Speaker A:I'm just pumped to, pumped to dive in.
Speaker A:So I want to start off with how did we first meet?
Speaker B:How was it?
Speaker B:I think you posted on Reddit a question about something and then I was like, hey, I'm happy to hop on a call with you and go over this.
Speaker B:And then you were like, okay, reluctantly, you know, we got on the call and then your first question was, so are you in the habit of meeting strangers on Reddit over the Internet?
Speaker B:And I was like, no, I just, you know, there's enough people, there's not space in our, in our industry for everybody.
Speaker B:And so I'm happy to give anybody a hand to give them a leg up.
Speaker A:I think it was sales and marketing related.
Speaker A:I think I was asking about hiring sales reps and success related to them and what has, what's worked and what has not worked.
Speaker A:I think that was, that was it.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:I just remember that you were off put.
Speaker B:Like I was somehow a scam for being willing to chat with you.
Speaker A:No, no, absolutely wasn't actually off put.
Speaker A:I was just kind of giving you, you know, I was giving you.
Speaker A:Basically.
Speaker A:I was like, I, you know, I mean, I wanted to you know, obviously, as a new owner in the space, you know, I'm trying to learn as much as I can from other people who have been here, done it, learned it.
Speaker A:And obviously, there's some people who are really helpful.
Speaker A:And you're, like, in one of those categories.
Speaker A:You're like, you're a core helper.
Speaker A:Like, that's like, you love helping other people.
Speaker A:You love doing things better.
Speaker A:I can tell that from when I've, you know, all of our conversations.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:That's like, a strategy that I used when, like, I'm like, I don't know anything.
Speaker A:So what's the best route to learn more?
Speaker A:It's like, go talk to the smartest people I can find.
Speaker A:And got you on the phone because I posted on Reddit.
Speaker A:And so those, Those communities have been really helpful in helping me, you know, do the right things with my own business.
Speaker A:So, man, thank you for absolutely taking that, taking that risk, and, you know, being able to help out a stranger, I mean, it says a lot about you and what you stand for, honestly.
Speaker B:Well, that's kind of you.
Speaker B:But the truth is, as it always goes, I feel like I've benefited just as much from our conversations that, you know, we've probably had one every quarter since then or so where we keep each other a little accountable.
Speaker B:And I think there's.
Speaker B:And there's multiple things you've done have been really smart.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, I.
Speaker B:I can learn from this.
Speaker B:And so one or two.
Speaker B:But, you know, I think ego will prevent a lot of people from learning.
Speaker B:And so just recognizing that everyone can teach you something is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker B:Is beneficial.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:So one of the things I've never actually talked about with you is, is your background, where you came from, how you grew up, and, like, ultimately how you got into the IT business.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you live in Utah, and it looks like you're.
Speaker A:You're an.
Speaker A:You were or are an LDS member.
Speaker A:So I'm.
Speaker A:I'm especially curious about your upbringing.
Speaker A:What did that look like?
Speaker A:How did that inform who you are today?
Speaker B:Oh, Ben, you're open the can of worms here.
Speaker A:I'm very interested in this.
Speaker A:I'm very interested.
Speaker A:I feel like it's huge.
Speaker A:It's huge.
Speaker B:So I, I did grow up Mormon.
Speaker B:I served an LDS mission.
Speaker B:I no longer consider myself to be Mormon, but I.
Speaker B:I left Mormonism about ten years ago, and it was very painful.
Speaker B:I wouldn't wish a faith crisis on my worst enemy.
Speaker B:It wasn't something I felt like I chose to do.
Speaker B:It wasn't like I was too lazy to live it.
Speaker B:I just came to the conclusion that what I had grown up believing was true was no longer as, as true as I believed it once more.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I served Mormon mission in Chile.
Speaker B:I spent two years there.
Speaker B:After my mission I went to Alaska and I drove a tour bus.
Speaker B:I would drive people from the cruise ships to the glacier and tell cheesy jokes and just thought I was having fun.
Speaker B:And after doing that, I realized I didn't know as much about my own state as I realized and started getting into the outdoors and did a bunch of cool, cool stuff there.
Speaker B:And then I used part of my time in college to go backpacking through Europe.
Speaker B:And then I spent seven summers in Alaska driving bus and telling jokes.
Speaker B:And you know, whether it was traveling the world or whether it was being a tour guide, I just was just chasing fun, having no idea how much those experiences would inform and influence my entire career.
Speaker B:And so I originally schooled be a firefighter.
Speaker B:I was in the middle of nowhere, Alaska and came across this kid who had fallen asleep at the wheel.
Speaker B:And long story short, I spent a couple hours trying to keep this kid alive until the medevac helicopters arrived and he died.
Speaker B:And anyway, the two or three other experiences I've had just made me realize being a firefighter is not for me.
Speaker B:But you know, this is back before ransomware and back in those days, on a bad day a computer would die and that's so much better.
Speaker B:And so I, you know, I came back from Alaska, my wife was pregnant.
Speaker B:I need a job that had insurance.
Speaker B:I took a job doing Dell tech support.
Speaker B:It wasn't great, it was actual, but soul crushing.
Speaker B:But I had, but I realized I liked the industry, I liked computers.
Speaker B:I just didn't like that job.
Speaker B:And to give you more of my background, I went worked for a, a thin, small MSP.
Speaker B: This is: Speaker B:And there were like six people there at the time.
Speaker B:And during my four years there, they grew from six to over 140.
Speaker B:And after a while they started doing things in a way that I didn't agree with.
Speaker B:And so I started kind of raising the alarm bells like, hey, if this doesn't feel right, this isn't the way we do things here.
Speaker B:And they said, well, it is now.
Speaker B:And you can either get out and do your own thing or you can get on board.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I started my company like that month.
Speaker B:And originally we were going to do backups for credit unions and then and a database for credit unions.
Speaker B:And then we just transitioned to Being it.
Speaker B:And so that's, that's the high level version of my background.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:There's a lot.
Speaker A:There's a lot in there.
Speaker A:Can we, can we rewind back to when you were a firefighter and why.
Speaker A:What were the things about that role and that lifestyle that you just thought was not for me?
Speaker B:So honestly, I think being a firefighter is for me, putting white stuff on red stuff.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker B:You know, I grew up a pyro.
Speaker B:I've always loved fire.
Speaker B:And every firefighter, for the most part, is a pirate.
Speaker B:And, and there is a brotherhood to firefighting.
Speaker B:Like, heck, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, to go hang out with your, your brothers at the fire station.
Speaker B:24 hours.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:But at least here in Utah, to be a firefighter, you generally have to be a paramedic first.
Speaker B:And, and being the, the paramedic side and trying to do the, the cpr.
Speaker B:I've done CPR three times.
Speaker B:All three people have died.
Speaker B:And that's statistically correct.
Speaker B:So statistically the fourth person, 25% of CPR recipients live.
Speaker B:So I'm saving it for the time I really care.
Speaker B:But yeah, so it just, you know, there's one case I gave a guy cpr.
Speaker B:I managed the scene and then I drove like two blocks away and I just cried and I cried.
Speaker B:And it's just, I'm a very empathetic person.
Speaker B:I really do care about other people.
Speaker B:And so I, I realized I really couldn't work in that field where there's just so much heavy feelings that you carry home.
Speaker B:You just.
Speaker A:How do, how do people deal with that?
Speaker A:That seems you have a 75% quote failure rate in a good day.
Speaker A:Like, how did, how do, how did other people continue to do that, like, in the world?
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:Emergency responders have one of the highest divorce rates.
Speaker B:So one could argue that.
Speaker B:That you don't.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker A:You know, that's kind of like a profession where a lot of lawyers are discontent and a lot of alcoholics.
Speaker A:They're similar to, like.
Speaker B:Well, and ultimately you do have to either become callous and just disconnect your feelings from it.
Speaker B:Even.
Speaker B:One of my clients is a law firm who specializes in family law.
Speaker B:And the first few times I was around them, hearing them talk about divorce so flippantly, I thought, I don't know if I can work with these people, because morally it just felt so.
Speaker B:I felt like you're taking a light.
Speaker B:The worst part of these people's lives.
Speaker B:And then you realized you really can't work in the trenches and have it affect you every day.
Speaker B:You have to, you know, become callous to it.
Speaker B:And for me, I, I now don't think anything of when I hear people talk about divorce in that law firm.
Speaker B:I am, I've been there for 12 plus years.
Speaker B:I'm, I'm.
Speaker B:Now I would be appalled by how callous I am to it.
Speaker B:And that's how you have to make it.
Speaker B:You know, you have to either adapt or, or die.
Speaker B:You know, you have to accept or move on.
Speaker B:And, and so anyway, for me, emergency medicine, I'm so grateful people who do that.
Speaker B:But it wasn't for me, man, I.
Speaker A:Don'T know that that resonates with me so much because in my last healthcare business, you know, my last business was a, was a dental, dental company.
Speaker A:I struggled with the health care aspect, the like, delivery of services and dealing with that failure.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, even if you do everything right, you've got all the processes in place, you're still going to have adverse outcomes 1 or 2% of the time that are really scary and you don't know what to protect.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or 0.1% or 0.01%.
Speaker A:And that always kind of scared me and kept me up at night through that five years of operation.
Speaker A:So I kind of.
Speaker A:Not in such a traumatic way that you had, but I felt that struggle as well.
Speaker A:Just from a personal perspective.
Speaker B:Well, when I perform HIPAA training for my clients, one thing I point out is that I know it's easy for it to feel just like a job, but you actually make a very meaningful difference when you are in the medical space.
Speaker B:You know that my mom is not well.
Speaker B:She's on her way out of this world and she told me that her biggest regret in life is not having been a nurse.
Speaker B:She wishes she could have helped more people.
Speaker B:That, you know, there's.
Speaker B:You don't think about what a difference your job is, but there's a lot of stress you have to carry, carry to be caring for other people.
Speaker A:Do you feel like you're still getting some of that with your IT business?
Speaker A:Like you're, you still feel like you're helping people and enable these businesses, but not.
Speaker B:Yeah, no.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I have a friend who used to do like online ad sales and he left that to do medical sales.
Speaker B:And he says he did that because he wanted to help people.
Speaker B:But realistically, I feel like there's no greater way to help somebody than help them pursue their dreams.
Speaker B:And as an MSP owner, like, maybe it's overly altruistic but I feel like I help other business owners pursue their dreams, that they can be entrepreneurs, they can do the part of their jobs they do well because we're protecting them against the things they don't even know they need or the things that they know that they hate.
Speaker B:And so I absolutely feel like as an MSP owner, I not just make a difference in the economy, I don't just, you know, make jobs for my co workers, but that I.
Speaker B:I help other entrepreneurs pursue their passions and they feel really good about that.
Speaker B:I understand I'm not saving lives, but I feel like I'm making a positive difference in a way that I feel like I'm making.
Speaker B:I can be proud of what I do.
Speaker A:Hi, I'm Ben Tigelar, the host of MSP Owner Podcast and the CEO of Datatel, an IT managed service provider with 35 employees.
Speaker A:The mission of this podcast is simple.
Speaker A:To have authentic conversations with IT owners about their journey, how it started, the challenges they faced, and where they're going next.
Speaker A:Every episode, I personally walk away with a new actionable item to strengthen my own business.
Speaker A:But a quick word about my company, Datatel.
Speaker A:We are actively acquiring MSPs who align with our service and culture.
Speaker A:So if your company is generating between 1 and $10 million of revenue, I want to talk to you.
Speaker A:But wait, you're probably thinking, why me and why Datatel?
Speaker A:First is I get you.
Speaker A:I understand the challenges MSP owners face.
Speaker A:Being one myself, feeling overworked, overwhelmed, constantly being on call, struggling to bring in new business.
Speaker A:I have the solutions and people in place to address these pain points.
Speaker A:Second is culture.
Speaker A:We run our business on EOS entrepreneurial operating system, which has been transformative for our employees and clients alike.
Speaker A:I believe that building a great company comes down to finding and retaining great people who are in the right seats.
Speaker A:Everything else is noise.
Speaker A:If any of this resonates, it probably means we're a fit and we should be having a conversation.
Speaker A:Until then, let's get back to the show.
Speaker A:Has it transitioned over time to like you first focus?
Speaker A:When you first started your IT business, you're focused on providing value to the client.
Speaker A:And now as you've gotten bigger and you, you have more employees now you're.
Speaker A:Have you shifted at all to now I'm impacting my employees at all.
Speaker A:Does that transition happen for you yet?
Speaker B:So here's what I would say.
Speaker B:My time as a tour guide really helped influence.
Speaker B:Like I learned about value add, language and, you know, when you're making money, your livelihood's Based on tips, you learn how much the way you say things matters.
Speaker B:And so as an IT guy for a long time I felt like a unicorn that I had social skills and technical skills and that was very rare.
Speaker B:My time as a firefighter helped me to deal with stress, you know, or my time was in amt.
Speaker B:I was never a firefighter.
Speaker B:I was in key that but you know, when you first start doing your business, it's scary, you know that it's.
Speaker B:There's analogy I liked from a TV show Survivor where they had I can't what it was but one season Survivor they had these two outriggers and they were trying to make it to the island first.
Speaker B:And on the idle island there's an idol and whoever gets the idol first gets to pick their team.
Speaker B:And there's like 11 people on each team.
Speaker B:Everyone picks one person and then the last two people just go home.
Speaker B:Day one, they don't get to stay.
Speaker B:So if they're running these outriggers, some people jumped off way too early and these outriggers left them behind.
Speaker B:Others left too late and then by the time they jumped out, other people were running to shore.
Speaker B:So whether you're talking about going from part time to full time, whether you're talking about going from a loan operator to hiring your first employee, it's very similar that if you jump too early, you can't afford to be in that space and if you jump too late, you're going to be losing business because you're not taking care of your customers.
Speaker B:And so although I did start the company 14 years ago, I really feel like about seven years ago is when I started employing people and that's when things really started to snowball into becoming a real company.
Speaker B:But you know, it used to be I stressed and couldn't sleep at night because I was worried about providing for my family.
Speaker B:And now I have multiple mortgages and families that I feel like are all on my shoulders that I, I really feel an obligation not just to my family but also to my coworkers and their families to make sure that everybody is going to be provided for.
Speaker B:And so I don't feel like my stresses have gone down.
Speaker B:I distress about different things.
Speaker A:Do you feel like that that obligation aspect because now you've got more employees, you've got more personal obligations, you've got a lifestyle that you want to live.
Speaker A:So you're saying the stresses haven't gone down necessarily?
Speaker B:No, because where I used to, I used to have enough clients that I knew everyone at every client.
Speaker B:And so, you know, in a way I felt like I was a part of, you know, 25 companies and I would lay awake at night thinking, okay, which of my clients am I most at risk of losing?
Speaker B:What do I need to do to make sure I keep them?
Speaker B:And now I don't just worry about losing clients, which of course you still do, but I worry about keeping my employees and how do I keep them developed, how do them engaged?
Speaker B:And so, you know, and then when you.
Speaker B:As one of the biggest lies that people think when they're considering starting their own company is they think, oh, I love the idea of having a company and not having a boss.
Speaker B:It's like that is such a lie.
Speaker B:It's a misunderstanding of running your own company, that it's not that you don't have a boss, it's now you have hundreds of bosses.
Speaker B:That my, my employees feel like just as much of a boss to me as I am to them.
Speaker B:That, yeah, at the end of the day I'm the one that gets decided if they stay here or not.
Speaker B:But I have to keep them happy to keep them here.
Speaker B:I have to keep my employees happy.
Speaker B:I have to keep my customers happy.
Speaker B:I have to make sure that I'm looking out for marketing trends, I'm looking out for industry trends, cybersecurity trends, that the, the amount of responsibility just continues to increase.
Speaker B:That the what I do in a day changes.
Speaker B:My workload has shifted, but my stress, I don't feel like has really gone down.
Speaker B:I just, I've had to just change where I focus it.
Speaker A:I feel like this is common, especially in the size that you're in and what other MSPs are in, because you don't have the resources to go and hire someone of your caliber to go and run everything right or take off some of that load.
Speaker A:And you're doing it incrementally right, by hiring capable people.
Speaker A:But like, that's a challenge that I see from this kind of one to two and a half million dollar range is like everything is still a lot on the owner, right?
Speaker A:Like you've got, you've got to do sales most of the time.
Speaker A:You've got to be the, you know, L4 support you've got.
Speaker A:You know, you're the backstop for any sort of account relationship.
Speaker A:Like, do you feel that weight right now or is that.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:Or has that gotten better over time?
Speaker B:So much better.
Speaker B:And that would be, it would be so disingenuous.
Speaker B:My team is amazing that my operations manager who.
Speaker B:One of the best things that you can experience as an employer is an employee willing to stress on your behalf.
Speaker B:You know, and I don't want that for my employees, of course, but I've had multiple employees who have lost stress or, you know, sleep, or who have physically felt the effects of stress.
Speaker B:And of course I don't want that for anybody.
Speaker B:But it means the world to me that my employees care.
Speaker B:You know, that.
Speaker B:And so my operations manager frequently says, hey, what can I take off of your plate?
Speaker B:And you know, he takes care of dispatching.
Speaker B:And I have two senior engineers who are so great that I have been fully out of it for the last two years.
Speaker B:I hired a full time marketing rep last July and he's been amazing.
Speaker B:And so I'm, I'm trying to do all the things you're supposed to do to remove yourself.
Speaker B:I'm a huge fan of the book four Hour Workweek by Tim Paris and the concept of getting mavens to do the things that you don't have to do.
Speaker B:It's just, I take my responsibility as a business owner seriously.
Speaker B:And it's not just a matter of how much money I can make.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I have such a great team.
Speaker B:I want to make sure that each of them has opportunities to grow and develop.
Speaker B:And in order to keep them here, I have to pay them more money.
Speaker B:In order to pay them more money, I have to make more money.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I, I'd say half of my job is more about cybersecurity and, and, and relationships with clients and then just overseeing the day to day operations.
Speaker B:Like I, I never would have guessed as a kid I would grow up to work a job with so many boring meetings.
Speaker B:I, I'm in three or four boring meetings a day and then I spend the rest of my days doing email.
Speaker B:And it's like, how did this happen that I started my own company?
Speaker B:I should have the job.
Speaker A:You were gonna be a firefighter saving lives and now you're like in boring meetings.
Speaker B:Well, and firefighters save lives, but they also play ping pong and watch TV and hang out, take it.
Speaker A:Best of both worlds.
Speaker B:Yeah, but, and, and to be fair, one thing I love about working in it is that I can still watch TV or whatever.
Speaker B:I have a third monitor that's just shows and so I still have a pretty good gig.
Speaker B:I, I enjoy the, the pros that come with being in the IT industry.
Speaker B:I just, I've seen myself get further and further removed from the things I used to think of myself as being very good at.
Speaker A:Yeah, part of why I wanted to do this podcast is to get the stories of owners and the owner perspective.
Speaker A:Because a lot of times people don't, people don't ask us like, we are the owner, but we've got a lot of hidden responsibilities that people just don't see and that aren't really apparent unless you're talking to other owners.
Speaker A:And that was, that was, that's really the genesis for why, why I think this is valuable to, you know, folks who are considering becoming an entrepreneur, but also to know, like, hey, there's other people out there doing what you're doing.
Speaker A:If you're running your business, you can go and talk to other people who can help you unlock.
Speaker B:So I was shocked.
Speaker B:Like, last July, our company has what we call company campfires.
Speaker B:They're like town hall meetings.
Speaker B:And last July, one of my employees had said, you know, back when you were checked in?
Speaker B:And that just like, hit me in the gut, like, you think I'm not checked in?
Speaker B:And he was like, well, back when you were working more.
Speaker B:And I was like, what?
Speaker B:I was like, look, here's an open invitation.
Speaker B:Any one of you, if anyone, you wants to follow me for a week and just be with me all the time I'm working, I'll be happy to have you with me.
Speaker B:Because I work earlier than every one of my co workers.
Speaker B:I work later than every one of my co workers.
Speaker B:That, because they don't see me in the trenches now resolving tickets and closing tickets, they don't necessarily.
Speaker B:And there's part of that that I miss, that when you are closing tickets, you can point to what you did in the day and say, I resolve these issues.
Speaker B:And sometimes as a business owner, when I'm responding to emails or I'm, you know, casting a net, or you just, you end your day and you think, I worked 10 hours a day.
Speaker B:I have no idea if I did any good.
Speaker B:And so there's, there's something about closing tickets that's actually satisfying that.
Speaker B:Anyway, it was shocking to me to have people perceive that if I'm not at my desk, I'm not working.
Speaker A:You're lazy, right?
Speaker B:And my co workers, again, who are fantastic, they said, no, no, no, we see it.
Speaker B:And now whenever they make jokes about me, they're pretty good about following up to say, hey, we appreciate what you do.
Speaker B:And so I, I, I do feel like I have the best team of any MSP of my size.
Speaker B:I'm willing to fight any other MSP owner who says their team is better than mine.
Speaker B:I have a local competitor who I really love.
Speaker B:We get along great, we challenge each other.
Speaker B:I actually encouraged him that we should do like a boxing match this year of hey, I want to fight you because I want to prove my, my, my team's better than your team and I'll fight you if you say otherwise.
Speaker B:And he was like, I'm not doing that, Dan.
Speaker A:I was like, you're bigger than me physically fight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wanted to have like a boxing match, like a.
Speaker B:Promote it.
Speaker B:Like, hey, let's, let's promote this.
Speaker B:Let's say, hey, whoever has the, whoever wins this boxing match is the better team.
Speaker B:And so, and this guy is like 2 or 3, just taller than I am.
Speaker B:He's looks stronger than I am, he's younger than I am.
Speaker A:I think maybe even step it up a notch and have it be like a WWE multi, multi style.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You've got you, you've got your operations person, your lead technician.
Speaker B:Tag team.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:That said, although my guys, I, I surprisingly employ a lot of musicians, I feel like a third of my guys are musicians.
Speaker B:I don't know that many of my guys that do well in the octagon.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:Can we rewind a little bit back to when you trans.
Speaker A:I feel like there was an inflection point when you, when you hired your first employee, you'd said like roughly seven.
Speaker A:You said it was seven years ago.
Speaker A:You hired your first employee, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What allowed you to go from no employees to one employee?
Speaker A:Like, what was the trigger?
Speaker A:What did you feel?
Speaker A:How did you know?
Speaker B:And the first thing I'll say that the recipe of my success has started off as in contractors, you know, former co workers became tenant and contractors.
Speaker B:And so I could, and I still use some tenant contractors today.
Speaker B:And so that allows us to do bigger jobs and scale up.
Speaker B:But when I started using a part time like a college student, and I was using him 30 to 40 hours a week and I thought, okay, and I'm ready to hire someone full time.
Speaker B:And then I received a contract that was going to be a $5,000 a month contract.
Speaker B:And I was like, perfect, that's an employee.
Speaker B:And so historically that's kind of how I justified hiring was always I got a managed client and they're going to be.
Speaker B:Or I get three managed clients and these are going to be enough to hire an employee.
Speaker B:I've always known that the biggest opportunities on the back end.
Speaker B:And so my perception is that a lot of MSP or entrepreneurs or small business owners fail because when they see their first payday they take it.
Speaker B:And so I have thrown off payday after payday after payday.
Speaker B:Like, I'm, I'm still in the same house I was before I started my company.
Speaker B:I, I, I have kept a.
Speaker B:And my life is better.
Speaker B:I'm starting living a better lifestyle.
Speaker B:I don't mean to make light of that, but I, My life has not increased exponentially based on how much my net worth has increased based on the value of our company.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I've continued to hire really good guys.
Speaker B:I've continued to give my guys raises.
Speaker B:I continue to try and find ways to incentivize my guys to stay long term.
Speaker B:And so I have.
Speaker B:When I started my company, I literally had $70 in my bank account.
Speaker B:I had nothing.
Speaker B:And so it took me six or seven years to have anything because I would, I bootstrapped the company in that I would do a job.
Speaker B:I get paid $200.
Speaker B:Like, awesome.
Speaker B:I'm going to buy a logo now.
Speaker B:And then I would do a job and get paid and say, great, I'm going to get a website.
Speaker B:I'm going to get a shirt embroidery.
Speaker B:Just, you know, every single thing went back into the, in the company.
Speaker B:And even just this year, my wife, who's been so supportive, was like, hey, when we started Solzoro, a Costco trip used to be $200, and now it's $600.
Speaker B:And our pay hasn't really gone up in the last couple of years.
Speaker B:Like, we need to bring more in for our fam.
Speaker B:But I've just been so focused on the back end, feeling like that's, that's where success lies.
Speaker B:And so as a result, in the last few years, and we've consistently grown over, over 30% year in, year out.
Speaker B:And that's easy when you're going from 100,000 to 130,000, but it's a lot harder when you're going from 100 from 1.2 to 1.6 mil.
Speaker B:And so what we've just tried to do is, you know, be responsible.
Speaker B:I've put money in the bank, so we've always had savings.
Speaker B:So that my employees have never had to risk me being late on payday, that we make sure that.
Speaker B:And so anyway, I'm saying a lot here, Ben, so I appreciate your patience.
Speaker B:But, but the, the, for me, the biggest part was making sure that if I hired somebody, they would never have to worry about where, whether they were going to make their, their payments.
Speaker B:And so we've, we've really invested heavily on, on the front end of our employees so we could benefit on the back end of our company.
Speaker A:It feels like sacrifice is like a, a core tenant of what you've done.
Speaker A:Like you're, you know, time and time again, right.
Speaker A:You're saying, oh, I'm gonna wait off till later to do this thing because I want to invest in, in either other people or in, you know, the, the future.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Something you can't touch right now, it's not in front of you, but it's, but it's, it's there, right?
Speaker A:Kind of that.
Speaker A:How, how do you.
Speaker A:It seems like it's ingrained in you.
Speaker A:Like, where did that come from?
Speaker B:So everybody says this, and I'm no different, but I grew up pretty poor.
Speaker B:Yeah, there was a three or four year period as a child where my dad didn't have a paycheck.
Speaker B:Eight of us lived off my grandpa's Social Security.
Speaker B:There was points when I was a teenager where I had a job and my dad did not.
Speaker B:And so, you know, my parents did the very best they could, but they, they struggled.
Speaker B:And so I.
Speaker B:Every single day I think it's a miracle, the life, the life I live.
Speaker B:I can't believe it, but you know how well my family does.
Speaker B:And the truth is, you know, we're, we're now aiming to make more and more as our company.
Speaker B:But there were a few years there where I was just so content.
Speaker B:Like, oh my gosh, I don't, you know, for me it's just a miracle.
Speaker B:Like I.
Speaker B:This might not sound like a big thing, but even just last year I heard my son, who was 15 or 16, tell My wife he wanted an Ohio State hoodie.
Speaker B:And it was like, you can ask for specifically what you want from clothes.
Speaker B:Like by the time I was 13, I was paying for all my own clothes, you know, that my, my parents stopped buying me shorts or pants when I was like 11.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:So for me, I just feel like so grateful for what I have.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Doesn't feel like a sacrifice that I don't spend more because I'm spending so much more than I ever could have imagined as a child.
Speaker A:It seems just part of you and you've really like dove into it and embodied it.
Speaker A:But then still you've got your long term upside of where you're taking the company.
Speaker A:Obviously you're building significant net worth as you grow your company, but maybe you're not tasting it right away.
Speaker A:And that sacrifice is what enables the future to happen.
Speaker A:And a lot of people can't, can't Stomach that don't have the patience.
Speaker B:And it's not like I, I'm, I don't want to put out some sort of perception that I, I haven't anyway embraced my life from this.
Speaker B:I, my family's been able to go on some really great trips, but even when we were, you know, poorer that we've, we've always done a good job of going camping, of getting away, that just, you know, I, I'm a big believer that, you know, in that altitude fixes my attitude, you know, so getting out to the outdoors helps me to relax.
Speaker B:But we.
Speaker B:One thing that's really helped me professionally is I've taken some of profits from our company and invested into real estate and so that I have a fourplex and that fourplex is my parachute that like in a worst case scenario I can sell my 4 Plex and then I can keep funding my company.
Speaker B:And, and that has really helped me to feel like I could focus on growth because that, that, that financial stability that I feel like I have found through being frugal has allowed me to now feel like whatever happens, I have something in the background I can, I can fall back on.
Speaker B:And so the last two years have been really focused on growth for us, which we couldn't have done if I didn't feel like my finances were in order.
Speaker A:You gotta have that baseline stability to know and foundation and know, hey, I'm gonna be investing in this stuff and taking some risks.
Speaker A:And so the last couple years have been focused on growth.
Speaker A:What is, what does growth mean to you?
Speaker A:It sounds like 30% a year is like what your goal is.
Speaker A:Is that?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So yes, but no.
Speaker B:So two years ago I was having a key strategic planning meeting with my key focus group and my two senior engineers and my operations manager.
Speaker B:And two of them came to that meeting for the year saying it's time for Dan to get out of it and focus on growing the company.
Speaker B:And so that's awesome to get buy in from your, your co workers to do that.
Speaker B:And so I tried hiring two or three different outbound SDR like sales development.
Speaker B:Who would do outbound leads for us.
Speaker B:I won't say the names here, but they're two of the biggest names in the space.
Speaker B:And I spent a lot of money, tens of thousands of dollars, about a hundred thousand dollars and a year of them making outbound calls to not make any good leads on our part.
Speaker B:I hired a marketing guy who, he's so sharp.
Speaker B:He's, he's a brilliant, talented guy, but he was going through A lot.
Speaker B:And his personal struggles really pre prevented him from succeeding professionally.
Speaker B:And so I joined multiple networking groups and so I've just kind hired a outsourced marketing officer.
Speaker B:And so I, I would say in the last two and a half years, I've spent upwards of 250 or $300,000 towards just growth.
Speaker B:And some things have worked and some things haven't.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, year one, it was like I've spent the last nine months and we are growing the same rate we've always grown.
Speaker B:If I would have done nothing, would we be right where we are?
Speaker B:Could I have taken this year off?
Speaker B:But we're, you know, the truth is so much of work is about dividends on the back end.
Speaker B:And so our company today experiences dividends from when we were making next to nothing.
Speaker B:But you know, there's the weeks where I was working 60, 70 hours a week but only bringing home 40,000 a year is paying dividends today.
Speaker B:And the things that we're doing today I think are going to pay a lot of dividends tomorrow.
Speaker B:And so what we've kind of done is shotgunned it and just we're putting money everywhere, trying to see what works.
Speaker B:My wife, who's one of my greatest advisors in my life, she said something like, I hired these SDRs, these outbound sales development guys to grow my company because I wanted to believe that I could just pay somebody else to grow my company for me.
Speaker B:And it's like, no, you need to have more skin in the game.
Speaker B:And so through our AdWords campaigns, through SEO, through we, we've, we've tried just about everything and, and we've really found, we feel like we're now starting to find like what's, what's really working for us.
Speaker B:There's another podcast, the MSP Camps.
Speaker B:No fluff marketing podcast, no marketing podcast.
Speaker B:And they've been super helpful for us as well.
Speaker B:That, and we went to scalecon, that combined conference convention between Tribe, a tech tribe and an MSP camp.
Speaker B:And after that, where we've been growing 30% a year, my marketing guy and I decided we want to double the size of our company in the next two years.
Speaker B:And so 30% is what we expect to be happening on its own.
Speaker B:And we want to.
Speaker B:And we've had some clients who have had some struggles this last year we had three different clients who got acquired.
Speaker B:Our biggest client went through a merger that even knowing that we might be losing half of our reoccurring revenue, we've still felt like we're going to double our income in the next two years.
Speaker B:And I feel like we're, we're really laying groundwork, make that happen.
Speaker B:And so, wow.
Speaker B:It's taken years to make the infrastructure so I can now focus on growth and, and I, I feel confident we're going to do it.
Speaker B:And that, that is, makes this the most exciting time of my career that I, I come into work early, I leave work late.
Speaker B:I'm usually not the first one here, but I'm one of the first ones here and I'm always the last one to leave.
Speaker B:And you know, there's so much.
Speaker B:Just the other night it was like 7 o' clock, my wife called me, told me it was time to come home.
Speaker B:I went home, had dinner with my family.
Speaker B:I wanted to go back to work and I couldn't.
Speaker B:I just found myself unable to do it and just realized there's so much truth to the Newton's first law, you know, of inertia that once you get something going it's easier to keep it going.
Speaker B:And so I felt like all of our efforts have culminated to this moment where we're now getting things to keep going on their own.
Speaker B:That's been very rewarding.
Speaker A:It seems like you're a very hard worker and you have been for a long time.
Speaker A:Would you agree with that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean I feel like hard is subjective, but I, as someone who has been working since I got my first job When I was 13, I was washing dishes at a local restaurant and you know, there, there are ways in which I feel like I worked harder when I was a teenager, when I was, you know, busting payrolls or washing dishes that, that you know, or I used to do construction, you know, that, that's, that's hard work in a different way.
Speaker B:But I, I have long believed in the value of work.
Speaker B:I, I feel like I, I certainly couldn't retire today, but when the time comes that I could retire, I expect I will keep working longer than I have to because I think there's a lot of value in work.
Speaker A:And you enjoy it.
Speaker B:It seems like I enjoy the work I do now.
Speaker B:I did not enjoy the work I did as a teenager, but I've certainly even like when I worked at Dell, that was a soul crushing job and I know we buy Dell computers, I'm not against Dell, but you know, some of the jobs I've worked I've hated but they helped advance my career to get to the point that I loved.
Speaker A:So you're at a million 6 of revenue, you're Looking to have some massive growth in the next two or three years even with some, you know, top customer potential issues down the road where, how are you going to achieve that?
Speaker A:And, and like what, what are the things that would prevent you from, from achieving that?
Speaker A:Like if we were to look three years from now and we're having a conversation, what do you think would be the things that, why it worked or why it didn't work?
Speaker B:Great question.
Speaker B:I, there's things that are completely outside of any market control.
Speaker B:You know, that of course, AI being the 800 pound gorilla in the space that we just have no idea.
Speaker B:And you know, and then you look at the economy that, you know, right now there's this concept of tarif wars and you know, what's going to happen in the economy in two years?
Speaker B:What's going happen in our industry that there's, there's so many things that are outside of our control.
Speaker B:What I will say is, talking to a good friend of mine recently, I was pointing out to him that I'm on a good trajectory but I could lose everything in a couple of years.
Speaker B:And he said, Dan, if you've lost everything, that's a bad sign for all of us that, you know, that that's, that's more to do with the industry than in the markets, than in our economy.
Speaker A:That sounds more like a personal, that doesn't sound like a realistic statement when you say, oh, I can lose everything.
Speaker A:Like that's just not, that's just not even possible.
Speaker A:That feels like a personal narrative rather than a, like an actual fact.
Speaker B:Well, I, I certainly hope so.
Speaker B:You know, that you, there's that Mark Twain quote of.
Speaker B:In my life I had very, I've had many fears, very few, whichever happened or something, you know, that it's, it's very common for all of us to rob the good times with doubts for things that never occur.
Speaker B:And, but when I look at the next couple of years, I think that the biggest things that will be about keeping myself going professionally is keeping my, my house in order that, you know, the book Millionaire Next Door talks about how something like 90% of millionaires in America are and my numbers are a little bit off here, but there are people who own service companies who are on their first marriage.
Speaker B:And so I think that keeping my personal relationship with my wife and kids is an important part of that.
Speaker B:And I also think that keeping my eye on the ball of not overextending ourselves.
Speaker B:And so one of the things they talk about at scalecon was people will do marketing efforts, get A bunch of leads.
Speaker B:So they stop doing their marketing efforts.
Speaker B:They close those leads, now they have no leads, so they increase their marketing efforts.
Speaker B:And so one thing that we are resolved to do is to not take our foot off the gas when it comes to what we're doing.
Speaker B:And so we have augmented our marketing.
Speaker B:We've hired someone through Upwork to do our SEO, who's a full time guy.
Speaker B:We work 30 hours a week for us doing SEO and we're paying him less than we paid a local company and he's doing more.
Speaker B:And so we're just one thing that we're trying to make sure we do is get accountability from our vendors, that we want to make sure that we see what we're getting, that we get the value and managing our client relationships.
Speaker B:Because even if you look at how our business has grown, so much of our business has come from client referrals that I've been on the MSP subreddit for 14 years and you see people who will say, yeah, we just grow without even doing anything.
Speaker B:Once we try and grow, it's going to be easy because we just got all these client referrals.
Speaker B:Like that's, that's actually not unique.
Speaker B:I feel like that's very, very common.
Speaker A:Not at all.
Speaker A:And, and just from a business buyer perspective.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because I acquired one and when I, and I've talked to a lot of owners, when I hear, oh, we get all of our clients via referrals, that's, that's usually code for I have no sales or marketing process or methodology.
Speaker A:That's really what it says.
Speaker B:Yeah, that I have no idea how I got here.
Speaker A:No idea.
Speaker A:Just, you know, did stuff like, great.
Speaker A:So I've got to build a whole sales and marketing engine.
Speaker A:Wonderful.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker B:And so what we have found is that there is truth to that, that our, our easiest referral source are our clients.
Speaker B:And so when we have SEO and AdWords and you know, even knocking doors when these things go right for us, we actually have systems we put in place to know at what point we asked for referrals from those clients.
Speaker B:So whenever we get a new client, like we have, we got a new client about four years ago who was a credit union.
Speaker B:They referred us to four other credit unions.
Speaker B:They referred us to a union, they referred us to a trade school, they referred us to some of their.
Speaker B:And just one referral is now responsible for like 12 clients, we found.
Speaker B:And so in understanding that, we recognize we need to deliver on every client opportunity we get.
Speaker B:So that we can have every client be both revenue and a referral source.
Speaker B:So we picked up a client last year, and we.
Speaker B:We're really big about the analytics of where we get our clients, what industry they're in.
Speaker B:And, and what we found was we picked up a client last year through an AdWords campaign.
Speaker B:We have been doing a small amount.
Speaker B:It's like $2,000 a month or something, or work for them.
Speaker B:And mostly it's licensing stuff.
Speaker B:We gave them a security quote yesterday.
Speaker B:The company they were using was charging them 86,000.
Speaker B:Our quote was 60,000.
Speaker B:And three years from now, the competitor would charge another 80,000.
Speaker B:Our quote for three years from now is 40,000.
Speaker B:They came to us yesterday saying, hey, we do these same things for our clients downstream.
Speaker B:Would you be interested in servicing them?
Speaker B:And it's like, yes.
Speaker B:And so part of what we believe, and, you know, everyone has, like, their.
Speaker B:Their niche, there's a reason why you became an owner.
Speaker B:There's a reason why you're thinking about starting a company that there's.
Speaker B:There's some sort of a need that you think you can fill.
Speaker B:For me, I wanted to feel good about where I worked at night.
Speaker B:I wanted to feel like I was doing right by the customers.
Speaker B:And so it started out very altruistically, but that's become our business model that we do right by our customers day in and day out.
Speaker B:And as a result, they love us and they become a referral source for us.
Speaker B:And so we have found that by knowing how to leverage these opportunities, we can often get more out of every client.
Speaker B:I think most of our clients and, and then this isn't unique to us.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people love their IT providers.
Speaker B:You know, that your IT provider keeps you safe, solves your problems.
Speaker B:You know, they're.
Speaker B:They're heroes.
Speaker B:You just don't necessarily think about giving them a referral unless you're asking for it.
Speaker B:And how do you.
Speaker A:It sounds like what you identified with your referrer at least, is like, I would qualify that one client as a super referrer, Right?
Speaker A:Like they're someone who absolutely provided you 10 to 12 clients over the course of four or five years.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And the reality is, is that person, probably, that one client probably makes up 75% of your referrals.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Or, you know, some.
Speaker A:So, like, it feels like this is a game of you have to find who your super referrer is and be able to nurture that, because then they're going to be able to, and the rest are probably not going to or have you seen a wider dispersion on your own.
Speaker B:So we have found like our, we have a partner that he does our cable poles and so we do it, he does cabling.
Speaker B:And we've cross referred that one person is responsible for 25% of the revenue in our business.
Speaker B:And so, you know, more than any one client, it's actually a partner who we cross refer business.
Speaker B:He has been one of our best lead sources.
Speaker B:And so that's one thing we're trying to do is cultivate relationships with other print companies or other phone companies and make sure that we have relationships where we can be mutually beneficial to have that synergistic value of cross referring.
Speaker B:But one thing that we have found is that if we step down with the client and we first pick them up and make a roadmap of here's how we're going to onboard you, here's going to resolve your issues and communicate all the way through when we go to meet with them after that, they will frequently think we're trying to raise the rates because we've done so much more than they expected for that amount of money.
Speaker B:And when we just make sure they're happy and say, hey, we're looking for other people who might also benefit from our services, people are really good about saying, you know what, I do know these other people who are using the same IT provider we were using and they'd be much happier with you.
Speaker A:Makes sense.
Speaker A:So we've got three years from now we're also having a conversation.
Speaker A:What are the things that are going to prevent you from getting to where you need to go?
Speaker A:Is it people?
Speaker A:Is it getting enough clients?
Speaker A:Like if you were to point it towards one thing, you know, what would that be?
Speaker B:So I think there, the two biggest variables there are keeping our clients and you know, we lost a client last year that I feel like the employee made a mistake that led to them leaving.
Speaker B:They say it's due to their acquisition.
Speaker B:I feel like we could have kept it.
Speaker B:And so, you know, there's an, there's a housekeeping measure of making sure that we keep the right guys on our.
Speaker A:Team and that will keep the quality up, keep the service intact while you focus on growth.
Speaker B:And so that, that's the first part is making sure that, you know, I can't sell something I don't believe in and if we're not delivering on it, I can't believe in it anymore.
Speaker B:And so making sure that we're making good on what we're saying we're doing internally and then realistically When I look at the majority of our clients who have left us over the last seven years, almost all of them have been due to acquisition.
Speaker B:You know, not all, but almost all have left because an acquiring company brought them, brought their IT provider on, and that's how we lost them.
Speaker A:And has anyone figured that out yet?
Speaker A:How do you turn the tables on that?
Speaker A:Because that's a very common thing.
Speaker A:Like, people say that all the time.
Speaker A:Larger company comes in, buys this one, and then they're gone.
Speaker A:But I haven't heard.
Speaker A:I heard it more negatively from the MSP owner perspective that, like, we're always in the backseat and we're usually at the acquired company rather than at the acquiring company.
Speaker B:So I don't, I don't take it personally because I, I've benefited from it just as much.
Speaker B:You know, we've had a, a client who's acquired like eight other medical practices.
Speaker B:And then we've been the incoming and they've been the outgoing.
Speaker B:In, in some cases, like we just had, who is our current biggest client.
Speaker B:They went through an acquisition and I've been so nervous about losing them.
Speaker B:And then they called me like two weeks ago after the acquisition went through, and they said, hey, we want you to know that we fought to keep you.
Speaker B:And I thought, okay, this is just lip service.
Speaker B:Here's the phone calls.
Speaker B:And they said, and the company agreed that their IT will do the east region and we'll do the west region.
Speaker B:So you guys are still in the mix.
Speaker B:And it's like, awesome.
Speaker B:And so one of the best things we did was just make our client love us to the point that they did fight for us and.
Speaker B:But in understanding.
Speaker A:Unusual.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's amazing, man.
Speaker B:But it's a huge win.
Speaker A:That's a testament to you and all the work that you've put in.
Speaker B:And it's also a testament to my office, obviously, that, that it's.
Speaker B:They're the ones who I feel like are the ones who have been so delightful and so great response times that kept them.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But you can't control that.
Speaker B:So I feel like the only variable you can control is, is, is the new clients you're bringing in.
Speaker B:And so you want to keep what you have, but you have to keep growing because there is so much truth to that old adage of if you're not growing, you're dying.
Speaker A:Yeah, we, we've got a few clients who are acquisition hungry.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They're going to acquiring multiple companies a year.
Speaker A:We've seen a lot of growth from them, and so great Clients I know, I'm like, I'm like, man, I am really interested in this space where it's like, man, maybe going larger and focusing kind of this mid, mid sized space who are actively acquiring, they need extra support and help because we're just, we're structured, we're doing so well for this client and we're solving a huge need.
Speaker A:And I'm like, man, this, this could be the niche that we transform our business into and that's the best niche.
Speaker A:We're the acquiring company because they have lots of integration challenges, they don't have a consistent technical stack, they have a lot of technical debt, they're trying to get things done, done.
Speaker A:They're at a point where they have enough money that they just want stuff to work.
Speaker A:They start to care about cyber security.
Speaker A:And so that's like an area that we're really, really excited about because we've been getting a lot of traction and it's, it's the opposite of what I've heard for MSP owners which is like we have, we have a small business client and they got acquired by this bigger company and we're out of the mix.
Speaker A:Like that's the story 90, 85% of the time and 15% of the time it's like we got lucky.
Speaker A:That's kind of like my gut feel after.
Speaker B:So after we started I first thought about going after micro small business.
Speaker B:Like boy, there's so many three to five user companies that nobody, nobody seems to want these.
Speaker B:They swear I should just focus my whole industry and my whole career.
Speaker B:It's like, no, it takes, you know, almost as much effort to make a 300 person company, HIPAA compliant as it takes a three person company that, you know, so there just isn't the kind of ROI there.
Speaker B:And so yeah, when you realize the bigger the client, the more volume there is, there's a lot of opportunity if you can prove yourself in that space.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I think it's time to wrap up.
Speaker A:So Dan, I really appreciate your time digging through your history and your business.
Speaker A:You are making some strides and moving stuff forward.
Speaker A:I have high confidence that you're going to figure it out and, and a couple years from now we're going to have a conversation.
Speaker A:You're going to be like, I did it.
Speaker A:There were some bumps, there are some unexpected surprises and opportunities and I'm about where we thought we were going to be.
Speaker A:That's my guess.
Speaker B:Well, thanks a lot Ben.
Speaker B:I really appreciate having me on and appreciate your confidence.
Speaker A:Yeah, talk to you later, man.
